Can SQ-EN draw a line in the sand w/ 3rd Parties?

[EnigmaticDodo]

Title.

I've been watching streamers do high end stuff and I see and hear programs announcing mechanics before they even exist on screen. Certain mechanics are randomized in the order they will occur and people are reacting to them far in advance.

Folks try to rationalize this as ok by saying, 'oh it's no different than having your raid lead call it', but let me counter with this; does your raid lead have precognition and can tell the order of random mechanics before they happen all the time? If not, then you're cheating. Plain and simple.

Reject me, oh forums mine.

Edit extra mentions:
This thread isn't just about Cact. I'm talking anything that is crossing the line.

There exists a program that is capable of making it so your ping is ready as 0 or negative, prevents you from being animation locked, and allows you to triple weave without issue, when you normally cant. Won't name it, but it exists.

Edit with highlights:

I will add to this:

• Your raid leader can make mistakes.
• Your raid leader cannot give your entire party individual callouts per your role in the mechanic.
• Your raid leader cannot give you callouts faster than the mechanic's in-game visual cues or with zero delay.

Stop rationalizing it and own it. You're using it to make the game easier.

Cactbot can print large, bolded instructions directly to your screen the milisecond an ability is telegraphed (and sometimes before it's even telegraphed clientside), with customized text that doesn't just label the ability, but gives you personalized instructions on how to solve the mechanic. This isn't even in the same universe as traditional shotcalling in some encounters.

It can also be used to draw a timeline on your screen, showing you exact times until upcoming abilities come out.

(Context for below: Someone questioned what random mechanics exist...)

My most memorable example was the Optical Sight patterns in A11S, wherein ACT could detect and call the mechanic well before it was actually telegraphed on the client. There're other RNG mechanics that send typically invisible information to the client ahead of time, but I don't know them all offhand because I don't use Cactbot.

In the case of Nael quotes, learning to parse those quotes mentally is a fundamental part of the fights design, so it's lame when it's trivialized to a robot saying "out, stack, in " the literal millisecond the quote reaches the client. No matter how good a person becomes at calling mechanics, they will never achieve a near 0ms response time and they will make occasional mistakes.

There're also additional plugins that allow you to actually automatically trigger button inputs based on information parsed from the client; This is how the Gaol plugin in UWU works, which automatically marks players with numbers.

[Nibelung_Valesti]

Title.

I've been watching streamers do high end stuff and I see and hear programs announcing mechanics before they even exist on screen. Certain mechanics are randomized in the order they will occur and people are reacting to them far in advance.

Folks try to rationalize this as ok by saying, 'oh it's no different than having your raid lead call it', but let me counter with this; does your raid lead have precognition and can tell the order of things before they happen all the time? If not, then you're cheating. Plain and simple.

Reject me, oh forums mine.

I agree, this needs to go and be banned right now before this turns into another wow fiasco for the community.

[Hanayumi]

I mean you can find full on lists of mechanics, so you "can" actually call out mechanics ahead of time. Even bosses with RNG still follow a direct pattern, it just turns into a which pattern they decide to do Pattern A, Pattern B, Pattern C, kind of deal. And yes for the most part Devs have already drawn a line and that was with 3rd party systems that literally display AoE telegrams or safe spots and have banned a few caught for using them back in the day (though I recall none being perma.) But yeah that's pretty much the big NO NO with Devs, its also why we got the lock down on markers cause one of those systems could switch out markers mid fight making it super easy on where to stand and such.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Title.

I've been watching streamers do high end stuff and I see and hear programs announcing mechanics before they even exist on screen. Certain mechanics are randomized in the order they will occur and people are reacting to them far in advance.

Folks try to rationalize this as ok by saying, 'oh it's no different than having your raid lead call it', but let me counter with this; does your raid lead have precognition and can tell the order of random mechanics before they happen all the time? If not, then you're cheating. Plain and simple.

Reject me, oh forums mine.

They already did draw a line in the sand tho?

They expressly forbid them. They aren't going to install software that scans your pc (illegal), and they aren't going to hunt down people outside the game barring specific circumstances.

[LittleImp]

It's illegal to have a program that scans for hacks? Don't many other games do this....?

In certain regions, certain styles of anti-cheat are indeed illegal. SE isn't going to suspend service in those regions just to chase down a (mostly) harmless piece of software.

Do you actively participate in the kind of content where this kind of software is frequently applied? I can agree that Cactbot is essentially cheating, but I'm curious about the source of your interest.

[LittleImp]

Yeah. I do higher end stuff on occasion, less so now due to no new content coming out til EW, and I've experienced people reacting to things or calling out things before they exist. Things that come to mind are Titan Savages multiple punches or Diamond weapons different attacks. For Diamond, I stopped playing it after a couple clears because of how egregious and obvious it was that people were doing it. It just feels dirty to be in these parties and scenarios. I've also been in a few different Ucob parties and people don't bother to read naels quotes, look at their debuffs, etc., instead opting for a text to speech like program to do all the work for them.

Yeah, it's gotten pretty out of hand but it's really a losing battle these days. Cactbot is more widespread than ever before, and I've even seen Ultimate groups that outright require its usage. I've cleared multiple without ever personally using it, but its essentially impossible and usually more trouble than it's worth to try to convince people in your group not to use it. I've had to just learn and let live when it comes to cactbot, though I still try to steer newer players away from it and explain that they will ultimately become a better player if they avoid using it.

There's also the elephant in the room of parsing and triggers being inherently tied together, with parsing being (like it or not) responsible for a significant portion of this games content longevity in the raid scene. I think the devs, being players of their own game, are aware of this relationship and it plays into the don't-ask-don't-tell policy they've developed around it.

[KageTokage]

It's illegal to have a program that scans for hacks? Don't many other games do this....?

They do, but said programs tend to stop only the most rudimentary third party apps and can be easily worked around if they have a semi-competent developer.

Gameguard is the one I see most frequently but all of the games I've played that used it still had issues with hackers/bots ranging from minor to extreme.

[SamSmoot]

This sounds like the DBM addon in WoW, which gives countdown bar graphs to mechanics, but no positioning suggestions that I know of. Didn't know this was possible in FF.

So, if we're going for no hints of upcoming mechanics, we may as well get rid of the orange telegraph markers on the floor. No advance warning at all, other than cast bars, boss movements, and sounds to tell you where to be at any time.