Does FF14 have a button bloat problem?

[ArthurATDayne]

The issue there becomes packet loss, which has seemed an oddly frequent issue in playing XIV. To wholly reliably have an oGCD go off, many of us need to hit that command more than once, and keys combined in that fashion, especially without an internal cooldown between them, can cause a second hit of the command (if after the skill has already actuated) to queue a Confiteor, which would in turn consume (early) your whole Requiescat phase...

I've argued for that combination and an internal cooldown before only to have one particular fight that may require an immediate use of Confiteor shut that idea down -- nevermind that with just a bare modicum of Skill Speed and either a trait added to Paladin and Dark Knight to duplicate their Skill Speed to Spell Speed or a consolidation of SpS and SkS outright would more than remedy that issue.

With Requiescat becoming 5 Stacks in Endwalker I wonder if something like Requiescat becomes Confiteor on last Stack and can only be used on that. But with Endwalker plan to make Confiteor transform into the 3 Blade Combo at 90 I suppose it's OK to leave it as is unless some internal cooldown or mechanic prevents unintended bugs- it's an OK compromise.

I did have the foresight to assign Confiteor to its own mouse side button because I end up button mashing that in the end anyway so it looks like it should work fine for Endwalker. Especially if a button is used for the 3 Hit Blades Combo... it'll still take at least 4 Buttons for the whole Combo Segment, back to square one.

[Nihility]

There is for sure a lot of stuff they could do to reduce necessary buttons while not really changing the way the game plays.
A lot of it could even be a toggles type of thing like having a separate page in the skill book. Like an Dynamic skills buttons tab
The thing that is weird to me is they actually already do a lot of it seemingly randomly

Can just use warrior as an example even though it really is among the least problematic classes already just because I'm most familiar with it and use the 90 set just because

Right now we already have fell cleave/inner chaos and decimate/chaotic cyclone as dynamic buttons but oddly enough having a forced regular fell cleave on a sidebar would actually be preferable because their are times inner rage and inner release decide they want to line up and inner chaos during inner release is pretty wasteful. So can add a button there because who cares about the aoe efficiency...

raw intuition and nascent flash are being made into basically the same skill in targetable and self versions. Could easily just make it one skill with passives that upgrade it into targetable and bloodwhetting stages. Trim one button there

Could easily make a storm's path dynamic button and storm's eye still branches at the same point. 1-1-1 and 1-1-2 is not really any less skill than 1-2-3 and 1-2-4 The skill is in weaving and knowing when to use which finishing skill not ability to slowly roll a finger across buttons. Can easily trim 2 buttons there

The new 90 skill only is available after inner release is used and has a shorter active duration than inner release's cooldown. Could have a dynamic button for that to trim one button needed.

So you could pretty easily make a targeting macro to nascent flash tanking partner and add a straight fell cleave button to your bar and not still be at the same button count at 90 compared to 80

It's pre-existing ingame tech so wouldn't even be difficult in the least and warrior is already fairly well optimized so other jobs could Trim a lot more.

The second thing is every cooldown ability does not need a matching aoe variant. Just add a splash damage passive to them if it's such a big deal to have an aoe rotation that is a 1:1 match with single target.

The last is some classes have skills that seem to be absolutely nothing but filler. Like sonic break and bow shock on gunbreaker; you could remove those skills and put a little potency somewhere else and the class would basically be unchanged. They're not tied to any mechanic or resource or anything, was like "here's a complete functional class and 2 extra skills on the side". I'm sure that exists in other jobs too

Just to me personally feels like you could reduce button bloat quite a bit and make it a player choice and cut out a bunch of redundancies that don't really add anything to the classes and in the cases of stuff that is already automated give the players a choice to make it manual too

[ArthurATDayne]

raw intuition and nascent flash are being made into basically the same skill in targetable and self versions. Could easily just make it one skill with passives that upgrade it into targetable and bloodwhetting stages. Trim one button there

Could easily make a storm's path dynamic button and storm's eye still branches at the same point. 1-1-1 and 1-1-2 is not really any less skill than 1-2-3 and 1-2-4 The skill is in weaving and knowing when to use which finishing skill not ability to slowly roll a finger across buttons. Can easily trim 2 buttons there


Just to me personally feels like you could reduce button bloat quite a bit and make it a player choice and cut out a bunch of redundancies that don't really add anything to the classes and in the cases of stuff that is already automated give the players a choice to make it manual too

I'm pretty happy that SquareEnix eventually settled on a Quality of Life solution to Storm's Eye 10% buff by having it both Applied & Refreshed via the 2 AOE Combo Skills instead of initially having to apply it with 1,2,4 single target rotation.

It felt really unnecessary and clunky to switch from AOE Aggro grabbing rotation to Single Target rotation on a pack of 3+ mobs just to get that initial application of the buff on.

The next step I would personally support would be to combine Storm's Path and Storm's Eye into 1 button to streamline this i.e. Get both that little heal, beast gauge buildup and application of the 10% buff or what you suggested with 1-1-1, 1-1-2 less buttons (I hope I'm understanding this correctly).

Regarding Endwalker's Raw Intuition-Bloodwhetting & Nascent Flash I did find it a bit odd that both abilities weren't just combined into 1 Skill because both of them provide 400 Potency Heal on Weaponskill effects, 400 Potency Heal Damage Shield, and 2 different 10% Reduced Damage Taken effects depending on who is primary target.

Why not just trim down to just 1 Skill that can be applied to Self or Target Party Member: Target Self get both 10% Reduced Damage Taken, Target Party Member they get the Damage Reduction effects.

Oh well, I also find the Warrior to be the least problematic too so a lot of what could be done is mostly further refinement to a Great Tank Job.

[SieyaM]

I don't think there is a button bloat problem or a button deficiency problem. The reason some people feel bored with their rotation or feel they are hitting buttons needlessly is because every job without exception has a rotation you do not deviate from for any reason. Once you fall into the rhythm of a job and learn its rotation and abilities you become bored of it because there is no more to learn, you just dance around the mechanics while trying to maintain this rotation.

[Colt47]

I don't think there is a button bloat problem or a button deficiency problem. The reason some people feel bored with their rotation or feel they are hitting buttons needlessly is because every job without exception has a rotation you do not deviate from for any reason. Once you fall into the rhythm of a job and learn its rotation and abilities you become bored of it because there is no more to learn, you just dance around the mechanics while trying to maintain this rotation.

While that's true to a degree, I'd say that some jobs have buttons that seem redundant or never get much use. I don't really use flamethrower all that much on machinist, for example. Black Mage has a bunch of skills that were passed down from ARR, like "Sleep", which you barely use at all outside pvp content and maybe heaven on high. WHM also has that kind of odd problem where you need cure 1 when going into early content and then you never use it later because it just doesn't make sense to use it.

[Gothicshark]

snip

Simple Answer NO.

Long Answer: Still no but with more words.

The game is designed to be played on a Playstation, as such they have a hard cap on Buttons per class. This means we also get more passives as we level and many high end abilities replace lower abilities or have switches that change them during play.
You comparing this game to WOW which has a very different design policy and gameplay shows a serious lack of understanding of how to play FFXIV. I would go back watch videos on how to play RDM and Summoner as you do not seem to get the gameplay or job.

As to WOW Warlock vs Summoner, not even close. You are doing the same dumb assumption people have been doing for years, Summoner is nothing like Warlock, never has been, never will be. It's a pet class with a Dot is the only thing close. Warlock is three different trees. Affliction Curse and Dots, Demonology you wanted pets here's an Army, Destruction you wanted to yell explosion so here is a bigger boom. The only Job similar to Warlock in FFXIV is Black Mage, and it is only at an aesthetics level if you played Destruction. Demo Warlock is not like any gameplay in FFXIV, and Affliction is also an unseen play type. And when you look at the history of these classes in WOW and the Jobs in Final Fantasy you see why they are nothing similar, Every Job in FFXIV so far is based on past Jobs from previous games, Reaper is going to be the first New Job in FFXIV. Final Fantasy Jobs are loosely based in stereotypes from Early Dungeon and Dragons filtered through a uniquely Japanese perspective. While Warcraft copied a Table Top game called Warhammer and tried to integrate their classes based on ideas from American Dark Fantasy.

Also if you found Sub Rogue to be too complex, I feel for you, as that class/spec wasn't that hard, My 3rd main (and 1st character in2005) in WOW was a Sub Rogue. Although I preferred Warlock until I came to FFXIV in 2015.

If you want a suggestion how to optimize and simplify your gameplay, grab a controller, and set the game up with the Cross Hotbar. You'll find it fairly simple even Ninja is easy on a Controller.

Also because I use a Keypad and Gaming Mouse, I have found that I have the opposite issue, not enough Buttons. ESP since I use macros to optimize my Hotbars in a way I like Best.

See: https://i.imgur.com/QoQzMbW.jpg for how I do my UI, it's not aimed for clean btw, it's aimed for uniquely me.

Basically I find your comparison of WOW to FFXIV wrong, and I feel you are complaining about the wrong issues when it comes to abilities. Personally I want to see White mage low level healing abilities integrated better for high end, It's a waste to of abilities to essentially have to ignore abilities after specific levels because they are inefficient gameplay after specific points.


Edit:
Additional UI:
Red Mage: https://i.imgur.com/z8SwjC1.jpg
Summoner: https://i.imgur.com/Z5ZUHZm.jpg
White Mage: https://i.imgur.com/4DHwoIF.jpg
Paladin: https://i.imgur.com/vwxHNFr.jpg
Ninja: https://i.imgur.com/93p5jkY.jpg

DPS UI explained: https://i.imgur.com/Cnr6Vnx.jpg I do Healer and Tank jobs differently, but uniformly different. Also Ninja has the Ninjutsu on the AOE part as it works better that way for me.

[Gothicshark]

While that's true to a degree, I'd say that some jobs have buttons that seem redundant or never get much use. I don't really use flamethrower all that much on machinist, for example. Black Mage has a bunch of skills that were passed down from ARR, like "Sleep", which you barely use at all outside pvp content and maybe heaven on high. WHM also has that kind of odd problem where you need cure 1 when going into early content and then you never use it later because it just doesn't make sense to use it.

Not really bloat, but it is a problem esp with White Mage and Black mage which have a few inefficient abilities which stop being used or just get ignored outright. The issue with Flamethrower is it is only good if you don't move, ie look at the movement button and it cancels, so it's more efficient to use other AOEs. As a BLM I use Sleep all the time out in the world when doing solo content, it's not needed in group content but it's helpful when your only damage mitigation is a Chocobo who can only hold aggro for one attack.

[Shurrikhan]

I don't think there is a button bloat problem or a button deficiency problem. The reason some people feel bored with their rotation or feel they are hitting buttons needlessly is because every job without exception has a rotation you do not deviate from for any reason. Once you fall into the rhythm of a job and learn its rotation and abilities you become bored of it because there is no more to learn, you just dance around the mechanics while trying to maintain this rotation.

This is true. It's hard to comment earnestly on any matter of button bloat without looking at its context, even if I'd have to argue that context alone does not sufficiently explain (away) our issues.

Take even just the otherwise identical AoE vs. ST spender options (Xeno vs. Flare, TFC vs. Enlightenment, etc.): if we actually had a reason to focus-fire, to the point of sometimes using ST tools in multitarget situations, no one would complain about being stuck with two buttons that have no thought beyond counting whether our enemies number in the singular or plural.

[Helgarm]

I would settle for being able to keybind any button on my keyboard. For example wow and elder scrolls you can keybind caps lock. In FFXIV you can not. That is a key that I don't use that I can't keybind. It is really close to were I rest my left hand on the keyboard.

Also right clicking on abilities instead of only being able to left click would be nice as well

[Lunalepsy]

Is it just me, or does this game actually have a skill bloat problem, mainly with dps classes. Having pushed a healer to 80 now and messing around with DPS and boy, everything feels like I’m playing a WoW 5.0 sub rogue….

Like with RDM for example, I need to have Verfire and Verstone on my bar, two skills which can’t be used without procs whatsoever, instead of them temporarily replacing veraero and verthunder when it’s actually time to use them.

And from what I’ve seen while glancing over most jobs’ skill book, RDM is even on the “easy” end of the spectrum. I’m bracketing easy because for me personally, bloating a spec with skills will only add pseudo-difficulty in form of it being tedious and tiring to play.

Especially since all these buttons don’t change the fact that in this game there is still only one intended and hardcoded way to play a class, so you’re just adding and adding to the robotic sequence while not adding any actual choices or gameplay enhancement.

Like take the ‘14 summoner for example, I think this might be the closest thing to a WoW warlock. In WoW I can either DoT, nuke, go heavy pet, shadow or fire based, or a weird combination of all. Well here I run around and DoT mobs and guess what? It doesn’t work, because they won’t die and there is no way to specialize a job into a direction. So here, I put my 2 dots up, send in my pet, draw ether, execute the 2-dot-up nuke, pet specials, various CD based skills and then spam my ST spell, repeat. This is what I mean.

This might just be me, or not, but I’d definitely like to see some pruning in the coming expac.

It does! Too many useless skills.