Does FF14 have a button bloat problem?

[Andy_T93]

First of all, you don't HAVE to. Bootshine is going to crit regardless as long as you're at the rear. Leaden just boosts it, there's also the opportunity costs of going the lower dps buffing route again vs just doing 2 rear combos.

Hell, the majority of their damage is coming from Perfect Balance/ Brotherhood / Riddle of Fire windows where you're alternating them anyway.

It's almost like things could be tweaked a bit.

This is all kinds of wrong let give the monk weaponskills numbers to make it easier:

1 = Dragon Kick
2 = Twin Snakes
3 = Demolish
4 = Bootshine
5 = True Strike
6 = Snap Bunch

Your first full rotation (ignoring the various OGCDs) is 1,2,3,4,5,6 but then the rotation goes off because now it is 1,2,6,4,5,3 so your suggestion isn't feasible but the combo isn't a self contained pattern and must adjust otherwise you either let twin snakes drop off (bad idea) or you clip demolish (bad idea) or you don't proc leaden fist (terrible idea)

Anyway its not like Monks even have alot of buttons anyway they have 22 skills (then minus one cos Anatman doesn't even go on my bar)
6 Role actions (again personally this is 5 for me as I don't bother with leg sweep)
Add in sprint and Limit break
=28 buttons thats not even 2 cross hotbars

[Shurrikhan]

My WoW shaman gets the job done with about 12 buttons.

...What build are you playing (and just how many core skills are you still leaving out) to manage that? I'm sitting on 25 buttons on my Shaman without any redundancies...

[Raikai]

I feel that the problem right now is some jobs having redundant conditional buttons.

They seem to be looking into that in Endwalker, yeah, but I'm kinda puzzled why for example, Scholar's Summon Seraph button won't turn into Consolation, if the latter is only available when the Seraph is on the field?... Tracking charges doesn't even make sense since the Seraph's recast timer is 120s and each Consolation charge replenishes at 30s.

Machinist's Hypercharge could also turn into Heat Blast since, again, the latter is only available during the former.

Maybe there are more examples of those in other jobs too...

[Shurrikhan]

I feel that the problem right now is some jobs having redundant conditional buttons.

They seem to be looking into that in Endwalker, yeah, but I'm kinda puzzled why for example, Scholar's Summon Seraph button won't turn into Consolation, if the latter is only available when the Seraph is on the field?... Tracking charges doesn't even make sense since the Seraph's recast timer is 120s and each Consolation charge replenishes at 30s.

Machinist's Hypercharge could also turn into Heat Blast since, again, the latter is only available during the former.

Maybe there are more examples of those in other jobs too...

There are. On BLM alone there are arguably... 4. Fire IV and Blizzard IV can't be simultaneously used, and can only be used after Enochian, for which key there is no use after having initiated Enochian (at least until somehow failing to maintain it). Between the Ley Lines can only be used after Ley Lines has been set, and there are no further uses for the latter's key after its initial press.

And that's not even including the intentional button-inefficiency that are our "combos". On DRG there are only at most 4 GCD decisions to be made even in the most decision-flush moments: ST-Buff-DoT, ST-Direct, ST-Ranged, and AoE. Because of how combos work in general, though, even those choices will only be present once per combo cycle (outside of ST-Ranged, which is wholly frontloaded and modular).

The example has been given before, but there'd be no loss to actual decision making even if you were to have the damn thing auto-battle until given a command to switch to AoE combos, to throw a Piercing Talon, or to rush to repeat the last 5-step ST combo (for a grand total of 3 buttons for all possible viable decisions to be made, without one necessarily having to press a damn thing for raid content). That's not to say I want an auto-battling DRG; quite the opposite. I just find the current keyflow incredibly wasteful.

[Lauront]

BLM is a mess when it comes to missed opportunities to clean up bloat. And now that some of the AOEs are back in the picture, it's even worse. Although I like the abilities, I can't say I understand their design thinking...

[Allegor]

...What build are you playing (and just how many core skills are you still leaving out) to manage that? I'm sitting on 25 buttons on my Shaman without any redundancies...

Elemental, probably. As far as I recall, it's just apply and keep up flame shock, and then spam lightningbolt until you proc lava burst or your 'gauge' fills up enough so you can use earth shock....that's basically it, not counting cooldowns like bloodlust, summon elemental, or stormcaller [sounds a lot like our healers over here, doesn't it?] Having played XIV long enough, when I went back to WoW for a bit during BfA, it felt so....empty, even DNC had more stuff to press.

Anyways, I do agree BLM is....interesting. It goes with what I said in another comment that rather than restructuring and rearranging some jobs actions, they just add stuff on top as if to "fix" the clunkiness. Blizz II for example, will be useless for 70 whole levels before it upgrades to High Blizz II

[Shurrikhan]

Elemental, probably.

Even Elemental should be running 20+, unless you refuse to do anything but tank-and-spank encounters. Shaman utility is pretty damn vital.

Anyways, I do agree BLM is....interesting. It goes with what I said in another comment that rather than restructuring and rearranging some jobs actions, they just add stuff on top as if to "fix" the clunkiness. Blizz II for example, will be useless for 70 whole levels before it upgrades to High Blizz II

It feels like the last time B2 was particularly relevant was the Quick Flare rotation in AoE (when you could queue a second cast to be affected by elemental bonus, such as UI's MP and casttime reduction upon Fire casts). At that time, B3 was the only way to instantly reach UI3, but it was a 1.4-GCD cast. B2's sub-GCD cast allowed for slidecasting, was a 100 potency AoE (roughly equal in ppgcd to Freeze's 150 at a 1.4-GCD cast), and, most importantly, got you to a second UI stack all the sooner, getting a further 2 stack's (much more likely hitting 2, up from 1 on first tick and 3 on the second tick, up from 2, though such ultimately depended on your sync with the global MP tick) benefit over your time stuck in UI.

That said, rather than retaining decent Ice ppgcds sufficient to use more than just B3 or Freeze (especially after its gaining UI3) or our nuance in leveraging mana regeneration or working around mana margins, polishing those earlier mechanical nexuses, etc... they just chopped the mechanic out at 74. Pretty disappointing, imo.

Blizzard 2 has no use once Freeze is learned, same with Fire 2 and Flare.

Except Blizzard II is regaining use under High Blizzard II in Endwalker. So at best that saves you your single button for Fire II by turning Flare into a very awkward trait for it. I'd much rather just consolidate Blizzard IV and Fire IV, which are mutually exclusive...

[Floortank]

I feel like most DPS jobs are at capacity for buttons, but my main complaint for "too many buttons" is GNB, which has like six too many for a tank.

[Shurrikhan]

I feel like most DPS jobs are at capacity for buttons, but my main complaint for "too many buttons" is GNB, which has like six too many for a tank.

2 are being removed (all into a single Gnashing Fang combo key), come Endwalker. Depending on your desire to stream, 4 more can be consolidated with zero loss to your available decision-making (via TPTs).

[Deceptus]

There are. On BLM alone there are arguably... 4. Fire IV and Blizzard IV can't be simultaneously used, and can only be used after Enochian, for which key there is no use after having initiated Enochian (at least until somehow failing to maintain it). Between the Ley Lines can only be used after Ley Lines has been set, and there are no further uses for the latter's key after its initial press.

Blizzard 2 has no use once Freeze is learned, same with Fire 2 and Flare.