Does FF14 have a button bloat problem?

[Shurrikhan]

Yeah... I take my button layouts and segments seriously. If Requiescat & Confiteor were just 1 Damn Button then the Combo Sequence would only require 3 buttons on Hotbar and easier to use with those 12 Side Button MMO Mouses because a lot of them are in rows of 3 buttons: 3/3/3/3

The issue there becomes packet loss, which has seemed an oddly frequent issue in playing XIV. To wholly reliably have an oGCD go off, many of us need to hit that command more than once, and keys combined in that fashion, especially without an internal cooldown between them, can cause a second hit of the command (if after the skill has already actuated) to queue a Confiteor, which would in turn consume (early) your whole Requiescat phase...

I've argued for that combination and an internal cooldown before only to have one particular fight that may require an immediate use of Confiteor shut that idea down -- nevermind that with just a bare modicum of Skill Speed and either a trait added to Paladin and Dark Knight to duplicate their Skill Speed to Spell Speed or a consolidation of SpS and SkS outright would more than remedy that issue.

[ArthurATDayne]

The issue there becomes packet loss, which has seemed an oddly frequent issue in playing XIV. To wholly reliably have an oGCD go off, many of us need to hit that command more than once, and keys combined in that fashion, especially without an internal cooldown between them, can cause a second hit of the command (if after the skill has already actuated) to queue a Confiteor, which would in turn consume (early) your whole Requiescat phase...

I've argued for that combination and an internal cooldown before only to have one particular fight that may require an immediate use of Confiteor shut that idea down -- nevermind that with just a bare modicum of Skill Speed and either a trait added to Paladin and Dark Knight to duplicate their Skill Speed to Spell Speed or a consolidation of SpS and SkS outright would more than remedy that issue.

With Requiescat becoming 5 Stacks in Endwalker I wonder if something like Requiescat becomes Confiteor on last Stack and can only be used on that. But with Endwalker plan to make Confiteor transform into the 3 Blade Combo at 90 I suppose it's OK to leave it as is unless some internal cooldown or mechanic prevents unintended bugs- it's an OK compromise.

I did have the foresight to assign Confiteor to its own mouse side button because I end up button mashing that in the end anyway so it looks like it should work fine for Endwalker. Especially if a button is used for the 3 Hit Blades Combo... it'll still take at least 4 Buttons for the whole Combo Segment, back to square one.

[Ryaz]

Not a huge problem, but it does feel like they occasionally add uneccessary stuff to fill out a set button quota. Like Samurai getting Shoha II on a separate button or another AoE ability that requires another button for nothing but a 10 potency increase just to pad out the rotation and hotbar. Sometimes it makes you scratch your head.

[Hysorn]

Only class I felt the button bloat is on GBN, so much so that I am avoiding leveling it until Endwalker due to how uncomfortable it is even with those MMO mouses, but that is getting fixed. Otherwise, I don't think so, it's more about adjusting keybinds comfortably if anything.

[Nihility]

There is for sure a lot of stuff they could do to reduce necessary buttons while not really changing the way the game plays.
A lot of it could even be a toggles type of thing like having a separate page in the skill book. Like an Dynamic skills buttons tab
The thing that is weird to me is they actually already do a lot of it seemingly randomly

Can just use warrior as an example even though it really is among the least problematic classes already just because I'm most familiar with it and use the 90 set just because

Right now we already have fell cleave/inner chaos and decimate/chaotic cyclone as dynamic buttons but oddly enough having a forced regular fell cleave on a sidebar would actually be preferable because their are times inner rage and inner release decide they want to line up and inner chaos during inner release is pretty wasteful. So can add a button there because who cares about the aoe efficiency...

raw intuition and nascent flash are being made into basically the same skill in targetable and self versions. Could easily just make it one skill with passives that upgrade it into targetable and bloodwhetting stages. Trim one button there

Could easily make a storm's path dynamic button and storm's eye still branches at the same point. 1-1-1 and 1-1-2 is not really any less skill than 1-2-3 and 1-2-4 The skill is in weaving and knowing when to use which finishing skill not ability to slowly roll a finger across buttons. Can easily trim 2 buttons there

The new 90 skill only is available after inner release is used and has a shorter active duration than inner release's cooldown. Could have a dynamic button for that to trim one button needed.

So you could pretty easily make a targeting macro to nascent flash tanking partner and add a straight fell cleave button to your bar and not still be at the same button count at 90 compared to 80

It's pre-existing ingame tech so wouldn't even be difficult in the least and warrior is already fairly well optimized so other jobs could Trim a lot more.

The second thing is every cooldown ability does not need a matching aoe variant. Just add a splash damage passive to them if it's such a big deal to have an aoe rotation that is a 1:1 match with single target.

The last is some classes have skills that seem to be absolutely nothing but filler. Like sonic break and bow shock on gunbreaker; you could remove those skills and put a little potency somewhere else and the class would basically be unchanged. They're not tied to any mechanic or resource or anything, was like "here's a complete functional class and 2 extra skills on the side". I'm sure that exists in other jobs too

Just to me personally feels like you could reduce button bloat quite a bit and make it a player choice and cut out a bunch of redundancies that don't really add anything to the classes and in the cases of stuff that is already automated give the players a choice to make it manual too

[ArthurATDayne]

raw intuition and nascent flash are being made into basically the same skill in targetable and self versions. Could easily just make it one skill with passives that upgrade it into targetable and bloodwhetting stages. Trim one button there

Could easily make a storm's path dynamic button and storm's eye still branches at the same point. 1-1-1 and 1-1-2 is not really any less skill than 1-2-3 and 1-2-4 The skill is in weaving and knowing when to use which finishing skill not ability to slowly roll a finger across buttons. Can easily trim 2 buttons there


Just to me personally feels like you could reduce button bloat quite a bit and make it a player choice and cut out a bunch of redundancies that don't really add anything to the classes and in the cases of stuff that is already automated give the players a choice to make it manual too

I'm pretty happy that SquareEnix eventually settled on a Quality of Life solution to Storm's Eye 10% buff by having it both Applied & Refreshed via the 2 AOE Combo Skills instead of initially having to apply it with 1,2,4 single target rotation.

It felt really unnecessary and clunky to switch from AOE Aggro grabbing rotation to Single Target rotation on a pack of 3+ mobs just to get that initial application of the buff on.

The next step I would personally support would be to combine Storm's Path and Storm's Eye into 1 button to streamline this i.e. Get both that little heal, beast gauge buildup and application of the 10% buff or what you suggested with 1-1-1, 1-1-2 less buttons (I hope I'm understanding this correctly).

Regarding Endwalker's Raw Intuition-Bloodwhetting & Nascent Flash I did find it a bit odd that both abilities weren't just combined into 1 Skill because both of them provide 400 Potency Heal on Weaponskill effects, 400 Potency Heal Damage Shield, and 2 different 10% Reduced Damage Taken effects depending on who is primary target.

Why not just trim down to just 1 Skill that can be applied to Self or Target Party Member: Target Self get both 10% Reduced Damage Taken, Target Party Member they get the Damage Reduction effects.

Oh well, I also find the Warrior to be the least problematic too so a lot of what could be done is mostly further refinement to a Great Tank Job.

[SieyaM]

I don't think there is a button bloat problem or a button deficiency problem. The reason some people feel bored with their rotation or feel they are hitting buttons needlessly is because every job without exception has a rotation you do not deviate from for any reason. Once you fall into the rhythm of a job and learn its rotation and abilities you become bored of it because there is no more to learn, you just dance around the mechanics while trying to maintain this rotation.

[Colt47]

I don't think there is a button bloat problem or a button deficiency problem. The reason some people feel bored with their rotation or feel they are hitting buttons needlessly is because every job without exception has a rotation you do not deviate from for any reason. Once you fall into the rhythm of a job and learn its rotation and abilities you become bored of it because there is no more to learn, you just dance around the mechanics while trying to maintain this rotation.

While that's true to a degree, I'd say that some jobs have buttons that seem redundant or never get much use. I don't really use flamethrower all that much on machinist, for example. Black Mage has a bunch of skills that were passed down from ARR, like "Sleep", which you barely use at all outside pvp content and maybe heaven on high. WHM also has that kind of odd problem where you need cure 1 when going into early content and then you never use it later because it just doesn't make sense to use it.

[Gothicshark]

While that's true to a degree, I'd say that some jobs have buttons that seem redundant or never get much use. I don't really use flamethrower all that much on machinist, for example. Black Mage has a bunch of skills that were passed down from ARR, like "Sleep", which you barely use at all outside pvp content and maybe heaven on high. WHM also has that kind of odd problem where you need cure 1 when going into early content and then you never use it later because it just doesn't make sense to use it.

Not really bloat, but it is a problem esp with White Mage and Black mage which have a few inefficient abilities which stop being used or just get ignored outright. The issue with Flamethrower is it is only good if you don't move, ie look at the movement button and it cancels, so it's more efficient to use other AOEs. As a BLM I use Sleep all the time out in the world when doing solo content, it's not needed in group content but it's helpful when your only damage mitigation is a Chocobo who can only hold aggro for one attack.

[Shurrikhan]

I don't think there is a button bloat problem or a button deficiency problem. The reason some people feel bored with their rotation or feel they are hitting buttons needlessly is because every job without exception has a rotation you do not deviate from for any reason. Once you fall into the rhythm of a job and learn its rotation and abilities you become bored of it because there is no more to learn, you just dance around the mechanics while trying to maintain this rotation.

This is true. It's hard to comment earnestly on any matter of button bloat without looking at its context, even if I'd have to argue that context alone does not sufficiently explain (away) our issues.

Take even just the otherwise identical AoE vs. ST spender options (Xeno vs. Flare, TFC vs. Enlightenment, etc.): if we actually had a reason to focus-fire, to the point of sometimes using ST tools in multitarget situations, no one would complain about being stuck with two buttons that have no thought beyond counting whether our enemies number in the singular or plural.