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  1. #21
    Player
    Drkdays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    903
    Character
    Eternity Spellblade
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 100
    Just make vulnerability debuffs more prevalent throughout the game's dungeons , both in boss fights, such as unavoidable damage granting vuln stacks too, and from generic trash. Gear will still be just as relevant, but mass pulling will be riskier and healers will definitely be more distracted.

    Everyone happier (except maybe tanks trying to fight in gear 20 levels below their current level and the healers trying to keep them alive in those cases) and not a single class modified.
    (1)
    Last edited by Drkdays; 11-01-2021 at 07:18 PM.

  2. #22
    Player
    HappyHubris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    426
    Character
    Pocket Hubris
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 94
    Quote Originally Posted by Drkdays View Post
    Just make vulnerability debuffs more prevalent throughout the game's dungeons , both in boss fights, such as unavoidable damage granting vuln stacks too, and from generic trash. Gear will still be just as relevant, but mass pulling will be riskier and healers will definitely be more distracted.

    Everyone happier (except maybe tanks trying to fight in gear 20 levels below their current level and the healers trying to keep them alive in those cases) and not a single class modified.
    If one extra sprout is turned off of healing by a wipe, YoshiP will say it's not worth it.

    We can't even get consistently damaging Savage content; do you think that work will be done to make leveling dungeons difficult? Remember, everyone needs to clear them to complete the MSQ.
    (6)

  3. #23
    Player
    Sebazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    3,468
    Character
    Sebazy Spiritwalker
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Drkdays View Post
    <snip>
    I’d be absolutely cool with this as an alternative route to go down. Even going the route of AV’s opening room where there’s just far too much trash to handle in one pull and adds are legitimately dangerous would be a great step towards making dungeons more engaging again.

    SE seemed to loose the courage to make dungeons even remotely challenging by design after Pharos Sirius though. A big shame in my eyes =/
    (5)
    ~ WHM / badSCH / Snob ~ http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/871132/ ~

  4. #24
    Player
    HappyHubris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    426
    Character
    Pocket Hubris
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 94
    Quote Originally Posted by BooPoo View Post
    I don't get it. Everything you said is kinda true but none of it contradicts my points?



    Yes. But not to the extreme where you have to constantly spam healing spells like in WoW. Please don't assume you're the only person that has played the most popular MMO for the past 15 years.



    Yes. And do you think that is a good design? In a role playing game, you never see any holy/disc priest or resto druid outside of instances in the open world? If I want to play a disc priest. Then I'll play the disc priest. I do not want to be forced into Shadow just so that I can function independently.

    We have a close example of it in 14. Imagine that you're a SCH main but you can only play summoner for MSQ/Fate/Sidequesting/Bozja because healing classes deal almost less than 10% of DPS damage. Even assuming the gears are shared, that is terrible design. Some people play for class aesthetics, fantasies etc. and they need to be respected. Blizzard certainly does not if you'd look at how different the gameplay/aesthetic is between those "specs" that are essentially just different classes with a few shared abilities.



    Again I've stated that ffxiv healers have their own problems, namely no real DPS rotation, but the concept of hybrid healer is objectively superior because it offers more gameplay potential to us. RPG games are not just about instanced raids/dungeons. Every class needs offensive capabilities in a world where the basic gameplay for every character is to kill monsters. "Worst" case if healers get more DPS abilities in the future, you're welcome to just... not use them?

    Please don't assume most of us never played WoW healers. I did, and they sucked.



    Sure. I would rather juggle between healing and a semi DPS rotation, why not make that an option? SGE is a good step but it's still too conservative in terms of DPS abilities.
    Let's just agree to disagree. I would rather have engaging healing with a side of DPS than staring bored while I glare glare glare glare glare glare glare dia glare glare... And I would rather level using a full offspec toolkit in open world content than being forced to use a healing kit of glare and dia to quest.

    You're just hating to hate, and it's sad.
    (1)

  5. #25
    Player
    Deceptus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The Goblet - 16th Ward, Plot 55
    Posts
    4,418
    Character
    Deceptus Keelon
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Sebazy View Post
    I’d be absolutely cool with this as an alternative route to go down. Even going the route of AV’s opening room where there’s just far too much trash to handle in one pull and adds are legitimately dangerous would be a great step towards making dungeons more engaging again.

    SE seemed to loose the courage to make dungeons even remotely challenging by design after Pharos Sirius though. A big shame in my eyes =/
    Aurum Vale, Pharos Sirius, Steps of Faith, Shinryu, allowing very easy mode on scripted MSQ fights.

    Any time the majority of the playerbase faces a modicum of difficulty they whine to no end.
    (9)
    Veteran healers don't care if we need to heal, but right now we don't. We want interesting things to do during the downtime other than a 30s dot and a single filler spell that hasn't changed from lvl 4 to lvl 90.
    Dead DPS do no DPS. Raised DPS do 25/50% lower DPS. Do the mechanics and don't stand in bad stuff.
    Other games expect basic competence, FFXIV is pleasantly surprised by it. Other games have toxic elitism. FFXIV has toxic casualism.[/LIST]

  6. #26
    Player
    HappyHubris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    426
    Character
    Pocket Hubris
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 94
    Dead DPS do no DPS. Raised DPS do lower DPS. Do the mechanics and don't stand in bad stuff.

    WoW expects basic competence. FFXIV is pleasantly surprised by it.

    Other games have toxic elitism. FFXIV has toxic casualism.
    This is great.
    (5)

  7. #27
    Player
    currentlemon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    262
    Character
    Celica Genhu
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptus View Post
    snip
    Which is why I am in favor of nerfing max item level. Not just for ARR content, but across the board. If done, this would help healers a bit (in my opinion).
    (1)

  8. #28
    Player
    MellowMink's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    640
    Character
    Mello Minkus
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by currentlemon View Post
    Which is why I am in favor of nerfing max item level. Not just for ARR content, but across the board. If done, this would help healers a bit (in my opinion).
    That's still not going to resolve repetition issues with single-player content like Main Scenario quests though.
    (2)
    Last edited by MellowMink; 11-03-2021 at 04:59 PM. Reason: Fixed a minor typo

  9. #29
    Player
    Saefinn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,673
    Character
    Yesunova Hotgo
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptus View Post
    Aurum Vale, Pharos Sirius, Steps of Faith, Shinryu, allowing very easy mode on scripted MSQ fights.

    Any time the majority of the playerbase faces a modicum of difficulty they whine to no end.
    And hence we always arrive at this point where as healers we ask for better DPS options. It doesn't make anything harder if you don't want it to. Every other solution will make healing harder, which I am happy for and would prefer before the balance is way off.

    Given their cracking down on players telling other players how they should play and putting down other players, I feel like the line "but some people expect healers to DPS and put that pressure on them" shouldn't apply anymore. And I don't think attitudes should affect job design. I'm happy letting people play the job the way they like as long as they keep the party alive best they can. Though my expectation for DPS will be at higher end content. But this is because DPS checks are tighter and enrage timers are a thing.
    (1)

  10. #30
    Player
    Payadopa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,336
    Character
    Payadopa Astraya
    World
    Spriggan
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 71
    Quote Originally Posted by MellowMink View Post
    That's still not going to resolve repetition issues with single-player content like Main Scenario quests though.
    Other games do it with difficulty sliders. And we already have them. Problem is that normal actually is very easy. And then there is easy and very easy (never tried it but I can only imagine lol). Give us hard and very hard and tie an achievement to it. Done. The PotD treatment, basically.
    (2)

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