Endwalker GNB Discussion

[ForteNightshade]

nah that just sounds like bad GNB.
I did TEA on GNB, and all i had to do was say/think to myself "of, X is happening at Y, and I'll be at Z in my rotation. where to slot mitigation?"
the only annoying bit i can recall from tanking savage was hating OT'ing e5s.

It's an optimized GNB. How well did you perform in TEA? Did you clip your GCD, delay Burst Strike/Faded Circle out of raid buffs or lose a GCD moving the boss? All of these are issues GNB already has but can be mitigated to an extent with current Burst Strike. That will no longer be the case in Endwalker since you'll have a oGCD tied to it.

And I'd still counter with "git gud."
Having complexity on a tank and making it require preplanning and forethought, as well as an ability to adapt on the fly, for how to weave in your mitigation in the midst of doing your rotation, is optimization. It's just not "I'm tryna get top parse" optimization, but tbf that's not something I personally ever felt like chasing. If you wanna push for top numbers then more power to you. I'd rather not have yet another tank have it's gameplay be dumbed down because a few people wanna complain "wah GNB too hard, SE fix."
What all this comes off to me as is "GNB is gonna become even more technical and difficult to master and perform well with in the midst of an encounter," and frankly I'm salivating over that.

Nothing about this is added complexity because the solution will always be more work for the party. If the GNB cannot move the boss without losing an oGCD due to the new rigidness of Burst Strike, it'll either be a damage loss for them or force their co-tank to move it for them. Neither scenario requires forethought from a gameplay perspective. Likewise, if you can only time Rampart to line up with an upcoming tank buster but won't have the weave space to add a second CD, you'll just take more damage than any other tank in the same position.

You say you don't want GNB to be dumbed down. Is it now? Why would allowing it to keep it's current weave slot suddenly make it dumbed down? Because all Hypervelocity does is remove what already exists.

[WhyAmIHere]

It's an optimized GNB. How well did you perform in TEA? Did you clip your GCD, delay Burst Strike/Faded Circle out of raid buffs or lose a GCD moving the boss? All of these are issues GNB already has but can be mitigated to an extent with current Burst Strike. That will no longer be the case in Endwalker since you'll have a oGCD tied to it.



Nothing about this is added complexity because the solution will always be more work for the party. If the GNB cannot move the boss without losing an oGCD due to the new rigidness of Burst Strike, it'll either be a damage loss for them or force their co-tank to move it for them. Neither scenario requires forethought from a gameplay perspective. Likewise, if you can only time Rampart to line up with an upcoming tank buster but won't have the weave space to add a second CD, you'll just take more damage than any other tank in the same position.

You say you don't want GNB to be dumbed down. Is it now? Why would allowing it to keep it's current weave slot suddenly make it dumbed down? Because all Hypervelocity does is remove what already exists.

You can look up yourself, but both my clears in TEA were grey. The one death was not being healed after double rocket punch, but there's drama to tell between me and that healer. the second kill was lag during ordained stillness/motion, tho at that time i was having to tether off of my phone to even raid.
But, every cooldown barring HoS (except in some cases) was planned out for the entire fight. I've still got a copy of the excel doc if you want that too.
Again: I value the clear over the parse. I don't engage in speedun shite because it's not my forte.
If it's "Moving the boss is going to be harder" then just figure out ways to move the boss where either you're not going to be using burst strike, or start to move ahead of time. If WHM can figure out movement during a boss fight, GNB can.
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"If you only hit the tail end of rampart with a tank buster, you take more damage!"
...what? Did you read what you wrote? Besides which, your "2nd weave" is still free, even now. If you gotta push a gap closer around to make room for Heart of Stone or Heart of Light, then how will having hypervelocity impact that?
Again though, you're not making sense in what you're asking.

"You say you don't want GNB to be dumbed down. Is it now? Why would allowing it to keep it's current weave slot suddenly make it dumbed down? Because all Hypervelocity does is remove what already exists. "

As GNB is now is what we should be using as the control in comparison. GNB isn't dumbed down now because there's nothing else to compare it to. I'm not complaining about how it is now, I'm saying "complaining about Hypervelocity cannot lead to a gutting of GNB how DRK got gutted in 5.0 due to a perceived "wah it's too hard"." As has been said in the past, "if you don't like it no one's forcing you to play it." If GNB getting Hypervelocity in 6.0 is suddenly going to make GNB too troublesome to play, and people would want to see it removed, I'd say be careful what you wish for. If enough people start on this train I wholly expect 7.0 GNB to be neutered, and having a tank that is not just "press 1 2 3, spam 4 every so often" is a good thing. I joked about "Bloodthrist now allows your next 5 Burst Strikes to not consume cartridges," but given how SE tends to react to "wah gameplay too hard, SE fix," I wouldn't be surprised if that's what they kneejerk implement.

[Ixon]

You can look up yourself, but both my clears in TEA were grey.

One death is not a grey, that is a severe lack of optimization.

I value the clear over the parse. I don't engage in speedun shite because it's not my forte.

Nice, this conversation isn't for you then. This is about the issues additional forced oGCD's will bring to those that wish to fully optimize their kit with their party while maintaining the highest DPS possible.

The rest is just.. wrong? Asking the dev team to not add an additional layer of unnecessary complexity for the sake of just adding a new button isn't that hard to grasp. The job is fine now, no need for any additional layers, just build on what's currently there. I feel they did that pretty well with both PLD and WAR, all we are asking for is more of the same. I don't understand this absolute fear people have with the dev team. "Don't ask for too much, they might do something spooky with your job." They are the client, we are the customer. We provide feedback on changes we would like to see, and they implement them. If it's in the wrong direction you continue to work with them until both parties are satisfied, that's just how things work. I'm not going to blindly accept something I believe to be a wrong design choice just because I am scared that they might do something else.

No one is saying it will be too hard, I don't think a single person against Hypervelocity in this thread has said the change will make the job too hard. The concern is the change making the job unfun to play for those who currently enjoy it.

[AziraSyuren]

One death is not a grey, that is a severe lack of optimization.

I might be giving this person more credit than they deserve, but a single death can actually bring a parse down to grey, especially given they happened right around re-opener in a fight with very... scattered uptime.