Endwalker GNB Discussion

[WhyAmIHere]

Here's the question I wanna posit. Is giving Burst Strike the Continuation combo as bad as, or worse, than giving DRK's Syphon Strike the Dark Arts potency in Stormblood? For people that're able to compare the two, how'd you rank them / which would be more frustrating?

[MagiusNecros]

Dark Arts is more frustrating on the basis it uses up a huge chunk of your resource to boost one attack. But Dark Arts was deleted so it's kinda moot now. Toilet Arts is no more.

Hypervelocity is going to be amazing during Renzokuken CD period.

Hypervelocity if it frustrates anyone is going to be during No Mercy window.

But I think with Bloodfest seeing BS + HV x6 is very likely.

[Absurdity]

Dark Arts is more frustrating on the basis it uses up a huge chunk of your resource to boost one attack. But Dark Arts was deleted so it's kinda moot now. Toilet Arts is no more.

Hypervelocity is going to be amazing during Renzokuken CD period.

Hypervelocity if it frustrates anyone is going to be during No Mercy window.

But I think with Bloodfest seeing BS + HV x6 is very likely.

Keep in mind we still have Double Down for every No Mercy, so we won't have 6x BS + HV. But while Double Down theoretically allows for the same flexibility as Burst Strike currently does, it's on a 60 seconds cooldown and costs 2 bullets, so it still leaves us with our pants down if we ever need a double weave or need to reposition during a normal Gnashing Fang.

Here's the question I wanna posit. Is giving Burst Strike the Continuation combo as bad as, or worse, than giving DRK's Syphon Strike the Dark Arts potency in Stormblood? For people that're able to compare the two, how'd you rank them / which would be more frustrating?

100% Burst Strike's Continuation. Dark Arts was on paper always dps neutral, didn't matter if you used it on Syphon Strike, Soul Eater or Bloodspiller.

I say "on paper" because you technically lost dps if for example you used DA on Syphon Strike and it didn't crit, but your Soul Eater without DA afterwards did (something that was up to RNG and you had no influence over). But this is the thing, you could use DA on any of the 3, so it was infinitely more flexible than Continuation is.

[MagiusNecros]

Keep in mind we still have Double Down for every No Mercy, so we won't have 6x BS + HV. But while Double Down theoretically allows for the same flexibility as Burst Strike currently does, it's on a 60 seconds cooldown and costs 2 bullets, so it still leaves us with our pants down if we ever need a double weave or need to reposition during a normal Gnashing Fang.

I'm seeing Gnashing and Double Down being in our No Mercy window given that DD and NM line up with 60 seconds. After you spam whatever into your 20 seconds you can probably build up your 3 ammo and ready a Solid Barrel do Gnashing then Solid Barrel leading into BSHD x6 if you want to.

Or try and fit as many GCDS into your 20 second.

But you are right Double Down will take priority in both single target and AoE rotations.

AOE burst is going to be 4 Fated Circles into DD for sure under NM.

[Ixon]

I'm still going to level it first and give it a fair shot, it just seems like clunky design on paper. Anyone who raided Savage or Ultimate's with GNB will tell you the forced oGCD's with Continuation was probably the worst part about GNB, which wasn't even that bad given you only had to deal with it every 30sec, though it was still the most challenging part. To see them take what was seemingly the only real issue and make it more frequent just seems like an untested/bad design choice.

There is also the foreseeable issues of No Mercy + Bloodfest bursts not being able to all fit in the No Mercy window, No Mercy falling off before you can fit in Hypervelocity if you end on a Burst Strike, and Heart of Corundum's Excog lasting 30sec in the media tour and being overwritten when used on cooldown. Though the easy fixes for that are to make No Mercy a 22-25sec duration and make the Excog from Heart of Corundum last 20sec or less.

[ForteNightshade]

I mean I'd just say... "Git Gud, GNB adjust."

There's nothing to "Git Gud" about if you physically can't adjust. Instead, everyone else has to adjust for you. It's fairly common when optimizing for your co-tank to take the boss back simply because GNB can't weave CDs in. Or you plan out parts of the fight where healers have extra oGCDs; allowing you to eat something raw. Hypervelocity will only make this worse. Which will result in "good" GNB forcing more work on their team and "bad" GNBs simply losing damage through no fault of their own.

[347SPECTRE]

Anyone who raided Savage or Ultimate's with GNB will tell you the forced oGCD's with Continuation was probably the worst part about GNB, which wasn't even that bad given you only had to deal with it every 30sec, though it was still the most challenging part.

I actually enjoyed the use of continuation, never felt all that clunky or awkward for me personally.

[Ixon]

I actually enjoyed the use of continuation, never felt all that clunky or awkward for me personally.

I never said it wasn't enjoyable, I enjoy it too. That doesn't mean that currently in the entirety of the GNB kit its the not the biggest thing to work around when optimizing high end raids though. It certainly doesn't mean that I want more of it in Endwalker either.

[WhyAmIHere]

There's nothing to "Git Gud" about if you physically can't adjust. Instead, everyone else has to adjust for you. It's fairly common when optimizing for your co-tank to take the boss back simply because GNB can't weave CDs in. Or you plan out parts of the fight where healers have extra oGCDs; allowing you to eat something raw. Hypervelocity will only make this worse. Which will result in "good" GNB forcing more work on their team and "bad" GNBs simply losing damage through no fault of their own.

nah that just sounds like bad GNB.
I did TEA on GNB, and all i had to do was say/think to myself "of, X is happening at Y, and I'll be at Z in my rotation. where to slot mitigation?"
the only annoying bit i can recall from tanking savage was hating OT'ing e5s.

[Ixon]

nah that just sounds like bad GNB.
I did TEA on GNB, and all i had to do was say/think to myself "of, X is happening at Y, and I'll be at Z in my rotation. where to slot mitigation?"
the only annoying bit i can recall from tanking savage was hating OT'ing e5s.

There is a difference between what's possible, and what's optimal. By adding forced oGCDs you unnecessarily restrict flexibility and remove options when coordinating throughout an encounter. Sure, you can drop a combo, or drop an oGCD, or triple weave to make things fit, but most of us would like to do better than minimal and optimize efficiency. Having them add extra speedbumps on that road is neither fun nor rewarding gameplay.