Endwalker GNB Discussion

[WhyAmIHere]

It's not about managing your cooldowns as it will be physically impossible in some situations to get certain abilities out exactly when you want them without potentially compromising your DPS due to forced oGCDs. It will feel fun and engaging on a dummy, but will lead to unnecessary complications in raids, even more so in ultimates.

that's already an issue in raids when no mercy comes up. To wit I remember hating E2S because either 2nd or 3rd No Mercy would happen when the boss'd have to me moved to an edge of the arena. It's a known thing for GNB to have a lot to weave, being an oGCD heavy tank. It's part of a skill level with the job IMO, i.e. how good are you at knowing when to use what mitigation when you're in no mercy, and will you have to sacrifice something to not cause issues for the raid.

Sure having one more use of Continuation is going to be tough, but I dont think it's going to be that bad, it'd just require a rethinking of burst strike as just a filler button now, especially with a 3rd cartridge and the Burst Strike->Continuation combo.

[Ixon]

I think that instead of dropping GNB-specific oGCDs, SE should just take potency off the movement skills (Rough Divide being among them), considering both that they're supposed to be utility and that they're not really fun to weave.

While I also agree that movement abilities should only be used for movement and not padding during burst phases, those oGCDs are not as big of an issue because they are not forced and you can move them around wherever necessary.

[Ixon]

that's already an issue in raids when no mercy comes up. To wit I remember hating E2S because either 2nd or 3rd No Mercy would happen when the boss'd have to me moved to an edge of the arena. It's a known thing for GNB to have a lot to weave, being an oGCD heavy tank. It's part of a skill level with the job IMO, i.e. how good are you at knowing when to use what mitigation when you're in no mercy, and will you have to sacrifice something to not cause issues for the raid.

Sure having one more use of Continuation is going to be tough, but I dont think it's going to be that bad, it'd just require a rethinking of burst strike as just a filler button now, especially with a 3rd cartridge and the Burst Strike->Continuation combo.

That's my point though, it was already a well known issue in the current iteration of GNB that could be circumvented because you only had to worry about 3 forced oGCDs every 30sec. In Endwalker we will have 2-4 more forced oGCDs on top of that during burst windows every minute, not to mention the ones we will spend to not overcap on gauge that also have a forced oGCD. I am just unsure why they decided to buff the only real frustration of the job unless they thought it was too easy?

[Absurdity]

While GnB's high cpm playstyle is literally the only thing that's keeping me on tank atm I can wholeheartedly agree that it did not need more continuation, especially not on THE ONE ABILITY that so far allowed you to freely weave 2 defensives without breaking your Gnashing combo.

Continuation was completely fine in ShB, I would even go so far as to say it is essential to gunbreaker's appeal. Sure boss positioning was a pain during Gnashing but that's what you had Burst Strike for. I'm honestly not sure if whoever designed that ever played GnB without losing potency left and right...or they designed the Endwalker changes entirely on a dummy without ever taking mitigation weaves into consideration.

This doesn't even go into how unintuitive the playstyle is now going to be if potencies stay the way they currently are.

Gnashing Fang + Jugular Rip is a combined potency of 540, Burst Strike + Hypervelocity is a combined potency of 600, this means that you will most likely want to use Gnashing Fang outside of No Mercy and all following combo GCDs inside No Mercy so you can fit one extra Burst Strike into the buff. This doesn't just go against the current flow of Gunbreaker but also means that you have another forced weave since you need to double weave Continuation + No Mercy after Gnashing Fang.


I honestly hope that they will revert this change because it doesn't add anything but frustration to the playstyle.

[WhyAmIHere]

That's my point though, it was already a well known issue in the current iteration of GNB that could be circumvented because you only had to worry about 3 forced oGCDs every 30sec. In Endwalker we will have 2-4 more forced oGCDs on top of that during burst windows every minute, not to mention the ones we will spend to not overcap on gauge that also have a forced oGCD. I am just unsure why they decided to buff the only real frustration of the job unless they thought it was too easy?

Look I'll be 100% honest with you.

The more complaints that come of this the more likely it is GNB gets reworked like DRK was when complaints about "Dark Arts too spammy" were prevalent.

I do not want to see GNB become another DRK.

So far only Burst Strike's gotten the continuation combo as far as I'm aware. Double Down doesnt, and to wit I don't believe Fated Circle was given a continuation combo.

I'm all for adding a second or two of duration to No Mercy to make sure everything fits. I remember when TBN only lasted 5 seconds (and on that note this whole "4 second" thing on other tanks' mitigation tools is not going to go as the developers hoped I predict), and that was raised to a 7s duration after a lotta feedback.

So, all I'm saying is to be careful what you wish for. I'm still waiting for the original sound effects to be restored for the Solid Barrel combo.

[Ixon]

snip

We should not be afraid to provide feedback in the fear that they will make it worse. That's not how feedback works between a customer and a service. There is a give and take. Sometimes you don't get exactly what you ask for and have to spend time cooperating till both sides are satisfied.

Even though Burst Strike was the only GCD to get an additional forced oGCD, Burst Strikes make up about 1/3 to a 1/2 of your total GCDs in a No Mercy window depending if you have Bloodfest or not. Couple this with the forced oGCDs from Gnashing, that means every 60sec all but 2-3 GCDs will have a forced oGCD for approx. 20sec. A lot can happen in those 20sec. I'm not complaining about Burst Strikes and Hypervelocity's when you are spending a cart to not overcap in between bursts, as those probably won't affect anything.

My hope is that starting the conversation of an foreseen issue as soon as possible, getting as much traction as it can, will help in arriving at a resolution that everyone can agree on that does not ruin the functionality or playstyle of the job.

[Duskane]

I'm pretty excited for burst strike continuum but a easy fix would allow this one and only hypervelocity not break after another GCD

[WhyAmIHere]

We should not be afraid to provide feedback in the fear that they will make it worse. That's not how feedback works between a customer and a service. There is a give and take. Sometimes you don't get exactly what you ask for and have to spend time cooperating till both sides are satisfied.

Even though Burst Strike was the only GCD to get an additional forced oGCD, Burst Strikes make up about 1/3 to a 1/2 of your total GCDs in a No Mercy window depending if you have Bloodfest or not. Couple this with the forced oGCDs from Gnashing, that means every 60sec all but 2-3 GCDs will have a forced oGCD for approx. 20sec. A lot can happen in those 20sec. I'm not complaining about Burst Strikes and Hypervelocity's when you are spending a cart to not overcap in between bursts, as those probably won't affect anything.

My hope is that starting the conversation of an foreseen issue as soon as possible, getting as much traction as it can, will help in arriving at a resolution that everyone can agree on that does not ruin the functionality or playstyle of the job.

And my counterpoint is that GNB is designed around continuation, and that saying "well this aspect of the job that's part of it's core identity is troublesome, please address it" has happened in the past with Dark Arts, and it's plainly evident where that led.

The thing with bloodfest however is that it'd guarantee both a burst strike, and a double down. It's my belief that 2x Down is going to become the focus of cartridge expenditure while under No Mercy, in that you'll want to ensure you don't miss doing so. The 3rd cartridge being spent on Burst Strike is just to use a cartridge if you have it, if that.
Granted this is just me feely-crafting here, but also a bit of bias. I enjoy the hectic pace and APM GNB offers. If anything I'd say that, after a bloodfest, if in the middle of No Mercy a weave must take place, then treating 2x Down as we do Burst Strike now alleviates that issue altogether. I don't want to see another job become even more simplified for the sake of "accessibility." There's already WAR and DRK for straight forward play, and PLD if you want to spice up your 1-2-3 a bit.
Tanking as a whole has already been dumbed down to such a mind-numbing extent. If the developers do address this I'd hope they have the tact to not butcher the one remaining tank that's engaging to play, with an emphasis on good weave management, and a higher APM, lest it too be neutered into the dirt.

[ForteNightshade]

that's already an issue in raids when no mercy comes up. To wit I remember hating E2S because either 2nd or 3rd No Mercy would happen when the boss'd have to me moved to an edge of the arena. It's a known thing for GNB to have a lot to weave, being an oGCD heavy tank. It's part of a skill level with the job IMO, i.e. how good are you at knowing when to use what mitigation when you're in no mercy, and will you have to sacrifice something to not cause issues for the raid.

Sure having one more use of Continuation is going to be tough, but I dont think it's going to be that bad, it'd just require a rethinking of burst strike as just a filler button now, especially with a 3rd cartridge and the Burst Strike->Continuation combo.

Except it becomes less skill oriented and more bothersome when your co-tank needs to voke because you simply don't have the space or properly move the boss without losing a Continuation combo. This is already a thing in speedkills, and was an issue in some fights this expansion. E5 comes to mind.

A simple soluation Xeno has brought up on his stream is making Continuation have a higher range. While it doesn't help the weaving problem, you'd at least be able to position the boss without risking your combo.

[WhyAmIHere]

Except it becomes less skill oriented and more bothersome when your co-tank needs to voke because you simply don't have the space or properly move the boss without losing a Continuation combo. This is already a thing in speedkills, and was an issue in some fights this expansion. E5 comes to mind.

A simple soluation Xeno has brought up on his stream is making Continuation have a higher range. While it doesn't help the weaving problem, you'd at least be able to position the boss without risking your combo.

I mean I'd just say... "Git Gud, GNB adjust."