"Swift completion" is relative to the game, not the community

[Rinhi]

I think for me it simply boils down to acceptance Rinhi. I understand if you’d see it as toxic positivity, but to me that implies there’s a meaningful choice I can make that will somehow improve a situation and I’m blissfully ignoring it.

But is there a solution? Will it help to tell people to git gud, to tell them they suck, that they should just stick with Trusts and stay the hell away from DF? That you hate to carry their sorry lazy arses and will kick them from the group at every turn? Will that improve their performance? I can tell you now it won’t. I’ve not seen that make any meaningful impact in WoW, and people get away with it there so it’s been tried.

People’s performance will vary. I simply accept that.

no, being an arse towards those people will obviously not help, but that's not what 99,9% of the players that are arguing for 'this side' do at all, I assume
what will happen is that any kind of advice is shunned because of things like "you don't pay my sub", "but I do it like this and you'll have to get used to it", "I don't like how the skill looks", "I don't like the animation this skill has so I don't use it" and other excuses and yes, these are all very real things people have been told, even on this very forum which, of course, got defended by some people because that's how you show how nice you are in this community
people should stop feeling like advice is a personal insult and attack and accept that the people who give advice do it for good reasons in most cases, tbh

I thought I was amazing on monk till I was like, level 70 or something until a friend showed me just how bad I was and I felt embarrassed and wanted to get better to not be a burden

[Nishira]

And not to dismiss your post Rinhi, but I think a keyword there might be ‘friend’. I think most people have less of an issue taking advice and listening to a friend because they trust in the good intention. Criticism is easier to take from someone of whom you know they have your best interest at heart. In that sense you can see with people who are generally more trusting, that they will have far less issue taking up advice from a stranger (because they automatically assume it comes from good intention) vs people who are less trusting or more fearful of strangers. In that sense I can’t see it as sabotaging someone’s good intent but more as a reflection of someone’s inner ‘fear/trust’ level.

[Kolaina]

snip

Or try this theory. As long as people like you say things are ok, the message you are giving is acceptance. Not knowing your class is acceptable. Not knowing a rotation is acceptable. Spamming medica 2 is acceptable. Not using cool downs on tank busters is acceptable.
As example I’ve given before, I can’t tell a healer to use more than medica 2, a tank to mitigate attacks that do nearly 50% of their hp, a black mage to use fire spells because in group content, especially alliance, there’s always someone who says “they are doing fine”.
Maybe they aren’t doing fine. That’s why someone spoke up. Advice may not always sound pretty, but that doesn’t mean its unsubstantiated or wrong. People don’t like being told they are doing something wrong. Being called out in public can be embarrassing. But it may, in the long wrong, benefit the player. As far as public embarrassment, do you think if i said “nishira, what your doing is X, try Y because reasons”, that anyone would remember who you were in a few days? A week? Take the advice. Run with it. Try it out. Move on. Move forward.
The community on the other hand has this hero complex. They have to swoop in and block players from criticism. Villify anyone who may hurt a players feelings. Attack because they accuse the person being critical of attacking. (Makes sense….) Those players aren’t helping anyone but themselves. An ego stroke, with the final result being stunting a players growth.
I’d like to consider myself above average in player skill. On some classes at least. But I didn’t get there on my own. I took advice. I accepted i had room to improve. That other players maybe knew more than i did. A lot of cases, didn’t know i was doing something incorrectly until it was pointed out. THAT right there needs to happen. Awareness. Not shielding people to protect a hurt feeling that they can over come

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

Or try this theory. As long as people like you say things are ok, the message you are giving is acceptance. Not knowing your class is acceptable. Not knowing a rotation is acceptable. Spamming medica 2 is acceptable. Not using cool downs on tank busters is acceptable.
As example I’ve given before, I can’t tell a healer to use more than medica 2, a tank to mitigate attacks that do nearly 50% of their hp, a black mage to use fire spells because in group content, especially alliance, there’s always someone who says “they are doing fine”.
Maybe they aren’t doing fine. That’s why someone spoke up. Advice may not always sound pretty, but that doesn’t mean its unsubstantiated or wrong. People don’t like being told they are doing something wrong. Being called out in public can be embarrassing. But it may, in the long wrong, benefit the player. As far as public embarrassment, do you think if i said “nishira, what your doing is X, try Y because reasons”, that anyone would remember who you were in a few days? A week? Take the advice. Run with it. Try it out. Move on. Move forward.
The community on the other hand has this hero complex. They have to swoop in and block players from criticism. Villify anyone who may hurt a players feelings. Attack because they accuse the person being critical of attacking. (Makes sense….) Those players aren’t helping anyone but themselves. An ego stroke, with the final result being stunting a players growth.
I’d like to consider myself above average in player skill. On some classes at least. But I didn’t get there on my own. I took advice. I accepted i had room to improve. That other players maybe knew more than i did. A lot of cases, didn’t know i was doing something incorrectly until it was pointed out. THAT right there needs to happen. Awareness. Not shielding people to protect a hurt feeling that they can over come

I've nothing further to add to the conversation that hasn't already been said, so just quoting you because you sum it up nicely.

And also because I want to extend the offer of a competent tank/healer should you ever have need of one on Crystal.