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  1. #31
    Player
    Valkyrie_Lenneth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    8,038
    Character
    Lynne Asteria
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    We were all new at one point, but to me it sounds like a lot of these "new" tanks had more hours in the game than I did when I started tanking endgame raids way back in 2.0.

    When you have a few hundred hours experience in something, a certain level of competency is expected. You can get a pilots license with less time in a plane than most tanks at lvl 70 have time in dungeons.
    (7)

  2. #32
    Player
    TaleraRistain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    5,430
    Character
    Thalia Beckford
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Yeah there are going to be jerks in DF. Just ignore them. If they want to bail, let them bail. I'm fine if tanks pull to their comfort level. If we're good at small pulls, I'll let them know I have their back if they want to try more but I'm also good where we are. I've gotten Mt Gulg a LOT lately and there are tanks who really need to dial it back. But because of the extreme "You must always do X" mantra, they push it too far over and over. I think any "must do this" idea is bad. You're cutting yourself off from being flexible and able to adjust when different situations arise. It's not just the tank, or the healer, or the dps who decide to success of a big pull. It's everyone. The tank needs to be able to mitigate, the healer needs to be able to keep up with heals, and (often something people disregard) the dps has to be high enough to burn things down quickly while the tank and healer still have abilities available. Anyone that PUGs a lot should be able to quickly assess the situation and adjust as needed.
    (8)

  3. #33
    Player
    Alxyzntlct's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    169
    Character
    Alyx'ender Lutece
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Dewslam View Post
    This goes both ways though. A lot of people throw tantrums using this exact phrasing; but don't realize they can't be the ones who get to dictate everything themselves either. If one person wants to go fast and one person wants to go slow; it's up to the group as a whole to decide the pace not the tank being obstinate and refusing to move past one pull or the healer rushing ahead and pulling everything like a brat. And unfortunately as frustrating as it is to deal with a slow group: one person trying to force the group to move faster than they want to can ruin things a lot more than one who wants to move slower. I've seen far too many wipes come from impatient people who kept trying to force players to move at speeds they weren't ready for and couldn't handle yet because the players will still learning their tools. This game's community has this weird mentality of "because I've done this content a lot and personally don't have a problem with it, then everyone else should always be on my level!" So you get people doing some of the most obnoxious things while screaming that it's unfair to ask them to slow down for three seconds because they've done this content so much they're tired of it and just want it over with.

    These days I infinitely prefer to get tossed into a roulette full of sprouts over one full of veteran players because you can teach a newbie sprout how to play the game better if they're bad, how to learn mechanics and how to run a dungeon. In my personal experience - it's very rare to find a sprout, that isn't an alt at least, who acts like a complete tool. At worst you get nervous players who won't admit this is their first time and they don't know what to do because they're afraid of being yelled at that they should have watched a youtube video first. And I'd rather wipe and see people learn, than wipe because the tank was like "lmao I was bored because I've done so much so I decided to do this naked and spin the boss in circles, it's fun".
    Oh man, that part really rings true!

    "And I'd rather wipe and see people learn, than wipe because the tank was like "lmao I was bored because I've done so much so I decided to do this naked and spin the boss in circles, it's fun"."

    I'm still a newish player and just recently got into Bozja and started working on a Resistance Weapon, doing DR runs, and I kid you not that the guy who started Main Tanking was partway through the 2nd boss when he suddenly decided to turn off tank stance without little-to-no warning MID FIGHT so that someone else could continue tanking. He then spent the remainder of the run goofing off, dying left and right all over the place, and distracting folks with a non-stop commentary in the chat.

    I get that some folks have been playing this game for a long time, but really, if you're that tired of playing the basics of the game then why are you still playing?

    Quote Originally Posted by TaleraRistain View Post
    Yeah there are going to be jerks in DF. Just ignore them. If they want to bail, let them bail. I'm fine if tanks pull to their comfort level. If we're good at small pulls, I'll let them know I have their back if they want to try more but I'm also good where we are. I've gotten Mt Gulg a LOT lately and there are tanks who really need to dial it back. But because of the extreme "You must always do X" mantra, they push it too far over and over. I think any "must do this" idea is bad. You're cutting yourself off from being flexible and able to adjust when different situations arise. It's not just the tank, or the healer, or the dps who decide to success of a big pull. It's everyone. The tank needs to be able to mitigate, the healer needs to be able to keep up with heals, and (often something people disregard) the dps has to be high enough to burn things down quickly while the tank and healer still have abilities available. Anyone that PUGs a lot should be able to quickly assess the situation and adjust as needed.
    Beautifully said! I PUG all of the time as I'm not in an FC, so between hopping between all 3 main roles, I've learned to get really, really good at quickly spotting strengths and weaknesses of folks I get in groups. Then based on that data, I adjust as best I can in the circumstances. Most of the time, it works really well!

    The best groups work as an actual group, everyone either quickly communicating or paying attention and adjusting accordingly. Things always go awry when someone needs to become an internet hero and start barking at people to do things a certain way, aka, their way with little regard to what anyone else thinks.
    (4)
    Last edited by Alxyzntlct; 10-15-2021 at 08:08 AM.

  4. #34
    Player
    Izscha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    242
    Character
    Izscha Wyvern
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Dewslam View Post
    This goes both ways though. A lot of people throw tantrums using this exact phrasing; but don't realize they can't be the ones who get to dictate everything themselves either. If one person wants to go fast and one person wants to go slow; it's up to the group as a whole to decide the pace not the tank being obstinate and refusing to move past one pull or the healer rushing ahead and pulling everything like a brat. And unfortunately as frustrating as it is to deal with a slow group: one person trying to force the group to move faster than they want to can ruin things a lot more than one who wants to move slower. I've seen far too many wipes come from impatient people who kept trying to force players to move at speeds they weren't ready for and couldn't handle yet because the players will still learning their tools. This game's community has this weird mentality of "because I've done this content a lot and personally don't have a problem with it, then everyone else should always be on my level!" So you get people doing some of the most obnoxious things while screaming that it's unfair to ask them to slow down for three seconds because they've done this content so much they're tired of it and just want it over with.

    These days I infinitely prefer to get tossed into a roulette full of sprouts over one full of veteran players because you can teach a newbie sprout how to play the game better if they're bad, how to learn mechanics and how to run a dungeon. In my personal experience - it's very rare to find a sprout, that isn't an alt at least, who acts like a complete tool. At worst you get nervous players who won't admit this is their first time and they don't know what to do because they're afraid of being yelled at that they should have watched a youtube video first. And I'd rather wipe and see people learn, than wipe because the tank was like "lmao I was bored because I've done so much so I decided to do this naked and spin the boss in circles, it's fun".
    If i expected anyone to be at my "level" i would not use roulette at all.
    I'm doing savage / ultimate stuff that's what i enjoy and i do know very well what's the average players skill in this game so no i dont expect anything from anyone.
    Doesn't change the fact that i've never had any problem during my roulettes because you simply can't die in dungeon unless the healer is literally afk, not once it happened to me in all those years.
    And yeah if anyone do feel like i should slow down, even if that's really rare maybe one out of 200 dungeons, i do 2 packs minimum 1 would bore me to death.
    Even got that whm one time that was doing random stuff and totally drained all his mana for 0 reason, asked me to stop before a boss which i did.
    (7)

  5. #35
    Player
    Artemiz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    709
    Character
    Darwinian Origin
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Elladie View Post
    I love it when people prove my point for me.

    As I said, OP, you are most likely wasting your breath. Avoiding the duty finder is good for your health and your peace of mind; if all the 'go, go, go' people only played with their friends and FC mates, they'd probably be much better tempered too
    With the greatest of respect at what point would you reasonably expect a tank to know how to tank? GD is an easy dungeon even by level 70 standards and any tank who has actually played the role has tanked much more challenging dungeons already. When playing a multi-player game you do have a level of social responsibility and one of those responsibilities is to respect other players time and fun. It's not all about you. New tanks learning new content is obviously a thing, most of us have done it plenty of times and played with new tanks plenty of times but there is a bottom limit to what is generally seen as acceptable, single pulling GD would be well below that line.

    If you can't tank to even the bottom end of reasonable, by DF dungeon standards by level 70 then you're just not cut out for tanking, pick another role. If someone boosts to that level and then can't do it they should have practiced first, nothing is stopping them from practicing in lower level content, the MSQ roulette is a great place to learn basic tanking at level 50 because even if both tanks suck you will still clear.

    It's not toxic to expect a little respect and courtesy from fellow players, I have spent a lot of time on this forum arguing with people who I feel expect too much from newer players, and especially newer tanks. I have more patience than most and even I think going slow to "learn" GD is taking the piss.
    (11)

  6. #36
    Player
    weebtext's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Posts
    439
    Character
    Teki Suto
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Pictomancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by TaleraRistain View Post
    I've gotten Mt Gulg a LOT lately and there are tanks who really need to dial it back.
    I could never imagine why anybody would not want to feel the sheer euphoria of clearing the massive pulls in Mt Gulg.
    (8)

  7. #37
    Player Kolaina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,070
    Character
    Hazy Dreams
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Elladie View Post
    I don’t like people /snip
    Do you even go outside? Communicate with the general population at all? Maybe you cowering behind npc driven and single player content has only further developed your phobia. You are being irrational. If the duty finder, and the people in it are that bad, maybe its not them. But in the case that it is, you can always tab your chat over to battle info or customize one that leaves out say and party chat if you are really so sensitive.
    Or you can pull those socks up and pull yourself together. Most of this community gets along just fine being thrown in with random. If you are that afraid, and that withdrawn, its less a community issue and more a personal one
    (15)

  8. #38
    Player
    Izscha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    242
    Character
    Izscha Wyvern
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolaina View Post
    Do you even go outside? Communicate with the general population at all? Maybe you cowering behind npc driven and single player content has only further developed your phobia. You are being irrational. If the duty finder, and the people in it are that bad, maybe its not them. But in the case that it is, you can always tab your chat over to battle info or customize one that leaves out say and party chat if you are really so sensitive.
    Or you can pull those socks up and pull yourself together. Most of this community gets along just fine being thrown in with random. If you are that afraid, and that withdrawn, its less a community issue and more a personal one
    You too got that "shut-in" vibe coming from this ?
    I don't understand how one can be so thin skinned unless they never go outside / interact with ppl or have a condition.
    Not that it's bad, but you cant push the fault to others if it comes from you it makes no sense.
    (5)

  9. #39
    Player
    Elladie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Limsa
    Posts
    488
    Character
    Elai Khatahdyn
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Artemiz View Post
    With the greatest of respect at what point would you reasonably expect a tank to know how to tank? GD is an easy dungeon even by level 70 standards and any tank who has actually played the role has tanked much more challenging dungeons already. When playing a multi-player game you do have a level of social responsibility and one of those responsibilities is to respect other players time and fun. It's not all about you. New tanks learning new content is obviously a thing, most of us have done it plenty of times and played with new tanks plenty of times but there is a bottom limit to what is generally seen as acceptable, single pulling GD would be well below that line.

    If you can't tank to even the bottom end of reasonable, by DF dungeon standards by level 70 then you're just not cut out for tanking, pick another role. If someone boosts to that level and then can't do it they should have practiced first, nothing is stopping them from practicing in lower level content, the MSQ roulette is a great place to learn basic tanking at level 50 because even if both tanks suck you will still clear.

    It's not toxic to expect a little respect and courtesy from fellow players, I have spent a lot of time on this forum arguing with people who I feel expect too much from newer players, and especially newer tanks. I have more patience than most and even I think going slow to "learn" GD is taking the piss.
    I don't have expectations. People are different. Just because it takes me X time to learn X thing, that means nothing when considering a different person. I'm great at some stuff, I'm rubbish at others.

    What I don't do is treat someone badly because they're not as good as I am at something. Or even just not good at the thing at all. If I behaved like that in my job, I'd soon find myself without a job. How much more then, should I behave like a decent human being in a game?

    I'm never sure if I want to laugh or cry when I hear this stuff. It's a game. Your tank is nervous and wants to go a bit slower because he hasn't run the dungeon before. You've run it loads and you're sure he'll be fine. Coax him and help him and you end up with a commendation (possibly three), a more experienced tank and a nice feeling because you helped out. Or call him rude names and kick him. Totally up to you
    (6)

  10. #40
    Player
    Valkyrie_Lenneth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    8,038
    Character
    Lynne Asteria
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Izscha View Post
    You too got that "shut-in" vibe coming from this ?
    I don't understand how one can be so thin skinned unless they never go outside / interact with ppl or have a condition.
    Not that it's bad, but you cant push the fault to others if it comes from you it makes no sense.
    I mean, I have high levels of anxiety around new people, I am quiet, the typical "book reading nerd who only has a few friends and gets bullied", yet I have very few issues in DF, or with tanking.

    I'm sure it varies from person to person, but I've never really had issues in mmos outside of having to recruit for savage statics, or apply for them. Those are anxiety inducing to me, but I've mostly had good experiences.
    (10)

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