"Swift completion" is relative to the game, not the community

[Elladie]

Ghimlyt Dark is a level 70 dungeon. By level 70 it is expected for a tank to know how to pull at a decent pace and use cooldowns. If the tank cannot do this by level 70, they need to spend some time in the Hall of the Novice instead.

I have healed in FC runs he has tanked, he was competent but cautious. It was his first run of Ghimlyt Dark, and he wished to pull more slowly while he got a feel for the dungeon. A considerate person would have encouraged him to pull a little more, and then a little more than that, and tried to help him build confidence. Had it not been his first run, he would not have felt so tentative. As it was he was insulted and told to quit playing, which he did. This does not make me proud to be a member of this community. In fact whatever it is in the duty roulette, it's definitely not a community. More of an 'eat or get eaten' jungle

[ForteNightshade]

I have healed in FC runs he has tanked, he was competent but cautious. It was his first run of Ghimlyt Dark, and he wished to pull more slowly while he got a feel for the dungeon. A considerate person would have encouraged him to pull a little more, and then a little more than that, and tried to help him build confidence. Had it not been his first run, he would not have felt so tentative. As it was he was insulted and told to quit playing, which he did. This does not make me proud to be a member of this community. In fact whatever it is in the duty roulette, it's definitely not a community. More of an 'eat or get eaten' jungle

I'm going to be a little blunt. If this FC tank of yours is that afraid, then he shouldn't be tanking in DF. It's completely unreasonable to expect three random strangers to go at a snail's pace in a 70 dungeon because a tank is this anxious. I get that he was new to the dungeon but if we're being honest here, they're all hallway simulators. When you've done one, you've done them all. Players aren't toxic for wanting a faster run, especially in old content.

[Elladie]

I'm going to be a little blunt. If this FC tank of yours is that afraid, then he shouldn't be tanking in DF. It's completely unreasonable to expect three random strangers to go at a snail's pace in a 70 dungeon because a tank is this anxious. I get that he was new to the dungeon but if we're being honest here, they're all hallway simulators. When you've done one, you've done them all. Players aren't toxic for wanting a faster run, especially in old content.

I'm also going to be blunt. You have missed the point of my post.

I have never said that tanks should pull one group at a time. If they are confident, they should pull as many as they think their team can handle. When I run roulette with my friends, whether I'm healing or tanking or dps, we pull the biggest group we can manage. Sometimes we can pull off Mt. Gulg but that's the trickiest one.

What I am actually asking is that confident, competent players try to help those less confident and competent. If the other three in the Ghimlyt Dark had been sympathetic and helpful instead of insulting and rude, my friend might still be playing. He might have discovered he COULD do whatever it was that was bothering him (mostly that he had never run the dungeon before). Similarly, if the healer is struggling (for whatever reason) try and assist instead of telling them to 'git gud'.

I'm not denying for a second that there are deeply unpleasant people who play poorly and don't care; you can't help them so by all means stop trying if they spit in your face. I've probably encountered as many if not more of those in the 'toxic' DF I am talking about.

Tldr: my friends and I (15 to 20 people depending on where we are in the xpac) don't use the DF unless we absolutely have to because of the number of rude and unhelpful people we've encountered there. So please TRY not to be one of them

[weebtext]

Tldr: my friends and I (15 to 20 people depending on where we are in the xpac) don't use the DF unless we absolutely have to because of the number of rude and unhelpful people we've encountered there.

If you're truly encountering so many evil baddies that want to personally uninstall your game in DF then maybe a little bit of self-reflection is in order? Just a thought.

[Elladie]

If you're truly encountering so many evil baddies that want to personally uninstall your game in DF then maybe a little bit of self-reflection is in order? Just a thought.

Goodness me, some of you people do have reading comprehension problems.

We are a GROUP (generally implies more than one, even if I hadn't specially said 15-20 people) of people who have played the game since release (some before but there was no DF then). There are quite a few of us. If we all ran two or three roulette a day for 10 years that's... A lot of roulette.

So yeah, we've had good runs as well as bad runs. We've had runs where an ice mage has insisted Fire2 costs too much MP, a healer in Amdapor Hard didn't have a job stone, many SMNs who refused to use Dots, tanks who wanted to kill everything down every side passage, tanks who wouldn't wait for other members who had to AFK RQ, tanks who wouldn't AoE, tanks who wouldn't use tank stance, healers who wouldn't dps, healers who wouldn't heal. We've also had healers running ahead because the tank is new and nervous, tanks refusing to slow down because the healer is new and nervous, various people wanting to vote kick someone because they aren't happy about them (for petty reasons as well as more serious ones) On some of these occasions the people involved responded well when approached patiently and pleasantly. On some we basically got told to ×××× off. After eight years or so of this we reached the conclusion we'd only use DF if we had no choice.

I'm really at a loss to work out why you think that merits some self-reflection on my part? Perhaps you'd care to elucidate?

[ForteNightshade]

What I am actually asking is that confident, competent players try to help those less confident and competent. If the other three in the Ghimlyt Dark had been sympathetic and helpful instead of insulting and rude, my friend might still be playing. He might have discovered he COULD do whatever it was that was bothering him (mostly that he had never run the dungeon before). Similarly, if the healer is struggling (for whatever reason) try and assist instead of telling them to 'git gud'.

First and foremost, let's define "insulting and rude" because I see far too often those adjectives being applied to any sort of criticism. You mention elsewhere they told your tank friend to essentially uninstalled. What prompted that response? People usually don't jump to the nuclear option instantaneously. Did he refuse to tank the extra mobs; perhaps turning off his stance or purposely sheathing his weapon and letting them die? If it were entirely unprovoked, then they were jerks. I'll grant you that. Therefore, they aren't worth a second thought.

With all this said, you are once again putting the onus on random strangers. It isn't our job to be patient and overly accommodate to someone who hasn't even learned the basics of their jobs by level 70. At 50? Sure, I'll be more accommodating. And even more so in early leveling dungeons. By Ghimlyn Dark though, we've long reached a point of taking initiative. It's a similar vein to DPS not AoEing or Healers refusing to DPS. If you haven't figured out how to weave in some DPS as a healer or how your AoE buttons work by 70, you're simply being lazy. Refusing to pull more than a single pack on a four year old dungeon at that same level is laziness.