"Swift completion" is relative to the game, not the community

[Elladie]

Unfortunately I find most regular contributors to the forums don't recognise how toxic an environment the duty finder is for a lot of people. I have levelled all my jobs via squadrons and trusts, quests, fates, challenge logs etc. The only time I set foot in the duty finder is with a ready-made group; since I'm lucky enough to have a great FC full of good friends, that's more often than it would otherwise be. And - of course this will be described as anecdotal - all of these people loathe the duty finder and consider it toxic. Some of them are casual players, some are raiders, so they range across the spectrum.

We have lost lovely people from the FC who have quit the game after runs where they were abused and vilified by other members of their random group. One was a noobie tank running Ghimlyt Dark for the first time; he acknowledged he had stuff to learn still about both role and dungeon, but there was no excuse for the discourtesy he was shown. He has returned briefly since but never stays long because he finds roulette too stressful now; we aren't always available to go with him as we have varying play times. It makes me both sad and uncomfortable that people in this community could be so unpleasant. It also makes me sad that all of the people I know who play the game refuse to use the duty finder because they've all witnessed toxic behaviour in there.

All of the responses I've read so far, OP, haven't surprised me. Let's hope that you make it past level 70 with everything, and then you can just run with Trusts and/or your friends. I've only replied here since you're unlikely to get many others who offer you a kind word, and I'm going to duck my head back down below the parapet now and head over to the Lore section (that's where the nice, chilled folks hang out)

[Rinhi]

Unfortunately I find most regular contributors to the forums don't recognise how toxic an environment the duty finder is for a lot of people. I have levelled all my jobs via squadrons and trusts, quests, fates, challenge logs etc. The only time I set foot in the duty finder is with a ready-made group; since I'm lucky enough to have a great FC full of good friends, that's more often than it would otherwise be. And - of course this will be described as anecdotal - all of these people loathe the duty finder and consider it toxic. Some of them are casual players, some are raiders, so they range across the spectrum.

"It's toxic because I (probably) had a few bad experiences with it and thus generalise my experience onto the rest of the community and call the whole thing toxic even though I don't use it at all lol"
Ok lmao
my FC friends, anecdotal as their (and my) experience is, would call it toxic in a way too, but not the way you meant: in DF you usually find people coddling and excusing legitimately bad players who are getting carried through content they should not be able to clear

We have lost lovely people from the FC who have quit the game after runs where they were abused and vilified by other members of their random group. One was a noobie tank running Ghimlyt Dark for the first time; he acknowledged he had stuff to learn still about both role and dungeon, but there was no excuse for the discourtesy he was shown. He has returned briefly since but never stays long because he finds roulette too stressful now; we aren't always available to go with him as we have varying play times. It makes me both sad and uncomfortable that people in this community could be so unpleasant. It also makes me sad that all of the people I know who play the game refuse to use the duty finder because they've all witnessed toxic behaviour in there.

GD mobs hit like a wet noodle unless they're the bosses and it's a level 70 dungeon; there is nothing to learn about the dungeon nor about the role, even if he picked GNB as his first tank.
he played enough dungeons and trials to see most, if not all the mechanics the games offers up to you, he must've played GNB for 10 levels at the very least AND must have played a class to 60 to even unlock it, players really should at least know the basics of every role after (probably) spending hundreds of hours in the game at this point

All of the responses I've read so far, OP, haven't surprised me. Let's hope that you make it past level 70 with everything, and then you can just run with Trusts and/or your friends. I've only replied here since you're unlikely to get many others who offer you a kind word, and I'm going to duck my head back down below the parapet now and head over to the Lore section (that's where the nice, chilled folks hang out)

that's pretty toxic and presumptuous of you to say, generalising the people who post in here as unkind and toxic people

I have healed in FC runs he has tanked, he was competent but cautious. It was his first run of Ghimlyt Dark, and he wished to pull more slowly while he got a feel for the dungeon. A considerate person would have encouraged him to pull a little more, and then a little more than that, and tried to help him build confidence. Had it not been his first run, he would not have felt so tentative. As it was he was insulted and told to quit playing, which he did. This does not make me proud to be a member of this community. In fact whatever it is in the duty roulette, it's definitely not a community. More of an 'eat or get eaten' jungle

but there's absolutely nothing to pull in that dungeon...?
it's 2 sets of mobs before you hit the first wall, 2 more sets until you get to the boss, then there's 3 sets of mobs in a hallway towards the boss and then it's the 2+2 from the beginning again
it's not amdapor where you can pull the whole dungeon into the first boss, or bardam/doma where you can easily pull too much
it's basically impossible to pull too much in level cap dungeons unless the healer doesn't know how to play their role, but then you should rather kick the healer rather than do single pulls if they can't even keep you alive during those dungeons /shrug

[Elladie]

"It's toxic because I (probably) had a few bad experiences with it and thus generalise my experience onto the rest of the community and call the whole thing toxic even though I don't use it at all lol"
Ok lmao
my FC friends, anecdotal as their (and my) experience is, would call it toxic in a way too, but not the way you meant: in DF you usually find people coddling and excusing legitimately bad players who are getting carried through content they should not be able to clear



GD mobs hit like a wet noodle unless they're the bosses and it's a level 70 dungeon; there is nothing to learn about the dungeon nor about the role, even if he picked GNB as his first tank.
he played enough dungeons and trials to see most, if not all the mechanics the games offers up to you, he must've played GNB for 10 levels at the very least AND must have played a class to 60 to even unlock it, players really should at least know the basics of every role after (probably) spending hundreds of hours in the game at this point



that's pretty toxic and presumptuous of you to say, generalising the people who post in here as unkind and toxic people



but there's absolutely nothing to pull in that dungeon...?
it's 2 sets of mobs before you hit the first wall, 2 more sets until you get to the boss, then there's 3 sets of mobs in a hallway towards the boss and then it's the 2+2 from the beginning again
it's not amdapor where you can pull the whole dungeon into the first boss, or bardam/doma where you can easily pull too much
it's basically impossible to pull too much in level cap dungeons unless the healer doesn't know how to play their role, but then you should rather kick the healer rather than do single pulls if they can't even keep you alive during those dungeons /shrug

I love it when people prove my point for me.

As I said, OP, you are most likely wasting your breath. Avoiding the duty finder is good for your health and your peace of mind; if all the 'go, go, go' people only played with their friends and FC mates, they'd probably be much better tempered too

[Alxyzntlct]

I love it when people prove my point for me.

As I said, OP, you are most likely wasting your breath.

I agree with you, Elladie; it is rather unfortunate how most of the folks that frequent this forum tend to enforce the negative stereotypes that so many folks are seeking to avoid. Conversely, as I've seen some folks mention in other threads, thankfully the majority of the time people in the game itself are really nice. It's rare when I see someone that just makes me hard-cringe and leave a run rather than deal with that kind of nasty attitude.

So, yeah OP, there are folks that definitely agree with you, although you'll mostly see folks like that in the game and not here in the forums (as evidenced by this thread). I'd strongly recommend doing what a lot of us do, which is to simply to ignore them.

[Xirean]

I love it when people prove my point for me.

As I said, OP, you are most likely wasting your breath. Avoiding the duty finder is good for your health and your peace of mind; if all the 'go, go, go' people only played with their friends and FC mates, they'd probably be much better tempered too

Prove what point? They presented counter arguments.

[Rinhi]

Prove what point? They presented counter arguments.

I disagreed, ergo I'm bad

[Artemiz]

I love it when people prove my point for me.

As I said, OP, you are most likely wasting your breath. Avoiding the duty finder is good for your health and your peace of mind; if all the 'go, go, go' people only played with their friends and FC mates, they'd probably be much better tempered too

With the greatest of respect at what point would you reasonably expect a tank to know how to tank? GD is an easy dungeon even by level 70 standards and any tank who has actually played the role has tanked much more challenging dungeons already. When playing a multi-player game you do have a level of social responsibility and one of those responsibilities is to respect other players time and fun. It's not all about you. New tanks learning new content is obviously a thing, most of us have done it plenty of times and played with new tanks plenty of times but there is a bottom limit to what is generally seen as acceptable, single pulling GD would be well below that line.

If you can't tank to even the bottom end of reasonable, by DF dungeon standards by level 70 then you're just not cut out for tanking, pick another role. If someone boosts to that level and then can't do it they should have practiced first, nothing is stopping them from practicing in lower level content, the MSQ roulette is a great place to learn basic tanking at level 50 because even if both tanks suck you will still clear.

It's not toxic to expect a little respect and courtesy from fellow players, I have spent a lot of time on this forum arguing with people who I feel expect too much from newer players, and especially newer tanks. I have more patience than most and even I think going slow to "learn" GD is taking the piss.

[Elladie]

With the greatest of respect at what point would you reasonably expect a tank to know how to tank? GD is an easy dungeon even by level 70 standards and any tank who has actually played the role has tanked much more challenging dungeons already. When playing a multi-player game you do have a level of social responsibility and one of those responsibilities is to respect other players time and fun. It's not all about you. New tanks learning new content is obviously a thing, most of us have done it plenty of times and played with new tanks plenty of times but there is a bottom limit to what is generally seen as acceptable, single pulling GD would be well below that line.

If you can't tank to even the bottom end of reasonable, by DF dungeon standards by level 70 then you're just not cut out for tanking, pick another role. If someone boosts to that level and then can't do it they should have practiced first, nothing is stopping them from practicing in lower level content, the MSQ roulette is a great place to learn basic tanking at level 50 because even if both tanks suck you will still clear.

It's not toxic to expect a little respect and courtesy from fellow players, I have spent a lot of time on this forum arguing with people who I feel expect too much from newer players, and especially newer tanks. I have more patience than most and even I think going slow to "learn" GD is taking the piss.

I don't have expectations. People are different. Just because it takes me X time to learn X thing, that means nothing when considering a different person. I'm great at some stuff, I'm rubbish at others.

What I don't do is treat someone badly because they're not as good as I am at something. Or even just not good at the thing at all. If I behaved like that in my job, I'd soon find myself without a job. How much more then, should I behave like a decent human being in a game?

I'm never sure if I want to laugh or cry when I hear this stuff. It's a game. Your tank is nervous and wants to go a bit slower because he hasn't run the dungeon before. You've run it loads and you're sure he'll be fine. Coax him and help him and you end up with a commendation (possibly three), a more experienced tank and a nice feeling because you helped out. Or call him rude names and kick him. Totally up to you

[Artemiz]

I don't have expectations.

Maybe not, but this isn't a single player game and the rest of the party probably does. I'm not advocating being an ass, just pointing out that if you play in multi-player content you need to consider others as well. For the record, I always ask at the beginning of content what people want, if the healer wants small pulls they get small pulls, most don't though.

I see you mention that you're old school MMO, well that makes two of us. Back in the glory days when everyone knew everybody what happened to players who couldn't keep up? They got left out, that's what. Expecting everyone else to play at a pace that's much too slow for them is just as bad as expecting everyone to clear in 12 minutes, it's just the opposite end of the horseshoe. If DF content is a problem because people generally think you're slow then buckle up and get your arse in gear, if you're frustrated that it takes too long all the time then chill out. It's the same problem, but from a different perspective. The vast majority of players get along fine in the middle ground, that I would argue, is the expectation.

The tanks role is to pull at a pace that keeps everyone happy, if that's a bit much, for whatever reason, then just play as a DPS. Tanking isn't for everyone and that's ok.

[MaxCarnage]

What I don't do is treat someone badly because they're not as good as I am at something. Or even just not good at the thing at all. If I behaved like that in my job, I'd soon find myself without a job. How much more then, should I behave like a decent human being in a game?

Except this isn't a job. There's no professional courtesy here.