"Swift completion" is relative to the game, not the community

[weebtext]

(to paraphrase one flogging healer) "you're getting to a level where wall to wall is expected,"

How is this "flogging"? Is it because they didn't throw in a bunch of uwu's and owo's and sugar coat what they said? Either way just be a big boy and stop thinking that people telling you to pull big are abusive.

[Omedon]

How is this "flogging"? Is it because they didn't throw in a bunch of uwu's and owo's and sugar coat what they said? Either way just be a big boy and stop thinking that people telling you to pull big are abusive.

This was actually the nicest and most constructive thing that particular healer said, it was all downhill from there. The reason I mentioned it was to illustrate that, by the 70's, any expectation to wall to wall pull is pretty much dead to someone who enjoys trusts.

[aveyond-dreams]

You should be pulling a minimum of 2 packs per pull after level 50 and wall to walling in most instances after 60. Your healer is probably wanting you to go faster because we have literally nothing to do if you're not taking enough damage to actually heal you. We have a million healing abilities and 3 damage spells. Spamming holy and gravity is only so engaging compared to...actually needing to use my healing abilities. As long as you use cooldowns you will be able to survive most double and wall to wall pulls in game.

Even Thancred can do wall to wall in Shadowbringers dungeons, so I have to disagree with the notion of single pulls being the intended way to play through dungeons.

[Jeeqbit]

I believe that these AI party systems are indeed meant to communicate the way the game is meant by the devs to be played.

Definitely not. The AI does not use AoE and this is to make them worse than players so that there is still a benefit in playing with real people.

The reason there are multiple packs is so you don't have to pull them all if you are not confident. The reason there are walls is to say what the developers feel is a safe limit of packs to pull when you are confident.

[Bsrking5]

to play the dungeon one pull at a time, the way the AI parties flatout necessitate, and it is absolutely not worthy of rudeness or abuse. I think we can all agree on that.

The AI parties are then capable of multiple pulls.

Just because you don't value your time doesn't mean others also don't.

[TheRealQuah]

Whether it is your 5th dungeon or 500th, pulling 3 mobs is the exact same gameplay as pulling 10, so if you are doing single pack pulls then you are deliberately trolling your party.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

I guess what I was getting at with that "intended" line probably should have been phrased more as "not wrong." It is not wrong to play the dungeon one pull at a time, the way the AI parties flatout necessitate, and it is absolutely not worthy of rudeness or abuse. I think we can all agree on that.

I double pull for my trusts all the time when I was leveling my dps; single pulls are hardly 'necessitated' for them, Thancred can handle his own and doesn't need coddling, thanks.
If Thancred & Alphinaud, who are designed to be suboptimal compared to actual players in their corresponding roles, can handle double pulls with little in the way of issues, it speaks volumes to any tank in the DF who refuses to at least double pull.

If Yoshi-P intended for single pulls to be the norm, he'd make them hit like massive freight trains so that pulling more than one pack would be nigh unlivable besides only the highest skilled players using their toolkits to their fullest.
But as it stands, single pulling is so utterly boring for tanks sine you need 0 mitigation due to how hilariously weak they hit for, it's boring for healers since they almost never have to heal, and it's boring for dps who don't get to unleash their AoE skills across a pack of 6+ mobs and do thousands of potency per GCD. I literally can't understand anyone who wants to single pull past 50, it's an utter snoozefest.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

What's up with these 'tank pull thingy'-thread that kept brought up in past few days?

[Xirean]

Believe me, if I had the option in the 60s to use NPCs I would (and no, running the vault to 71 doesn't count). My point is the 60s don't have that option, it's the only bracket with this problem post level 20, and it's never ok to be rude to someone pulling at a reasonable pace. I'm getting swift completion rewards. That is literally fast enough.

Reasonable pace is heavily subjective. Many do not find single pulling to be reasonable. Hell in my experience it's actually most. But what I don't understand is why you want to do single pulls in the first place. It doesn't make any sense to me.

[Elladie]

Unfortunately I find most regular contributors to the forums don't recognise how toxic an environment the duty finder is for a lot of people. I have levelled all my jobs via squadrons and trusts, quests, fates, challenge logs etc. The only time I set foot in the duty finder is with a ready-made group; since I'm lucky enough to have a great FC full of good friends, that's more often than it would otherwise be. And - of course this will be described as anecdotal - all of these people loathe the duty finder and consider it toxic. Some of them are casual players, some are raiders, so they range across the spectrum.

We have lost lovely people from the FC who have quit the game after runs where they were abused and vilified by other members of their random group. One was a noobie tank running Ghimlyt Dark for the first time; he acknowledged he had stuff to learn still about both role and dungeon, but there was no excuse for the discourtesy he was shown. He has returned briefly since but never stays long because he finds roulette too stressful now; we aren't always available to go with him as we have varying play times. It makes me both sad and uncomfortable that people in this community could be so unpleasant. It also makes me sad that all of the people I know who play the game refuse to use the duty finder because they've all witnessed toxic behaviour in there.

All of the responses I've read so far, OP, haven't surprised me. Let's hope that you make it past level 70 with everything, and then you can just run with Trusts and/or your friends. I've only replied here since you're unlikely to get many others who offer you a kind word, and I'm going to duck my head back down below the parapet now and head over to the Lore section (that's where the nice, chilled folks hang out)