"Swift completion" is relative to the game, not the community

[Izscha]

And it's never ok to waste 10+ more min because someone think that things must go his way no matter what.

[Dewslam]

And it's never ok to waste 10+ more min because someone think that things must go his way no matter what.

This goes both ways though. A lot of people throw tantrums using this exact phrasing; but don't realize they can't be the ones who get to dictate everything themselves either. If one person wants to go fast and one person wants to go slow; it's up to the group as a whole to decide the pace not the tank being obstinate and refusing to move past one pull or the healer rushing ahead and pulling everything like a brat. And unfortunately as frustrating as it is to deal with a slow group: one person trying to force the group to move faster than they want to can ruin things a lot more than one who wants to move slower. I've seen far too many wipes come from impatient people who kept trying to force players to move at speeds they weren't ready for and couldn't handle yet because the players will still learning their tools. This game's community has this weird mentality of "because I've done this content a lot and personally don't have a problem with it, then everyone else should always be on my level!" So you get people doing some of the most obnoxious things while screaming that it's unfair to ask them to slow down for three seconds because they've done this content so much they're tired of it and just want it over with.

These days I infinitely prefer to get tossed into a roulette full of sprouts over one full of veteran players because you can teach a newbie sprout how to play the game better if they're bad, how to learn mechanics and how to run a dungeon. In my personal experience - it's very rare to find a sprout, that isn't an alt at least, who acts like a complete tool. At worst you get nervous players who won't admit this is their first time and they don't know what to do because they're afraid of being yelled at that they should have watched a youtube video first. And I'd rather wipe and see people learn, than wipe because the tank was like "lmao I was bored because I've done so much so I decided to do this naked and spin the boss in circles, it's fun".

[Alxyzntlct]

This goes both ways though. A lot of people throw tantrums using this exact phrasing; but don't realize they can't be the ones who get to dictate everything themselves either. If one person wants to go fast and one person wants to go slow; it's up to the group as a whole to decide the pace not the tank being obstinate and refusing to move past one pull or the healer rushing ahead and pulling everything like a brat. And unfortunately as frustrating as it is to deal with a slow group: one person trying to force the group to move faster than they want to can ruin things a lot more than one who wants to move slower. I've seen far too many wipes come from impatient people who kept trying to force players to move at speeds they weren't ready for and couldn't handle yet because the players will still learning their tools. This game's community has this weird mentality of "because I've done this content a lot and personally don't have a problem with it, then everyone else should always be on my level!" So you get people doing some of the most obnoxious things while screaming that it's unfair to ask them to slow down for three seconds because they've done this content so much they're tired of it and just want it over with.

These days I infinitely prefer to get tossed into a roulette full of sprouts over one full of veteran players because you can teach a newbie sprout how to play the game better if they're bad, how to learn mechanics and how to run a dungeon. In my personal experience - it's very rare to find a sprout, that isn't an alt at least, who acts like a complete tool. At worst you get nervous players who won't admit this is their first time and they don't know what to do because they're afraid of being yelled at that they should have watched a youtube video first. And I'd rather wipe and see people learn, than wipe because the tank was like "lmao I was bored because I've done so much so I decided to do this naked and spin the boss in circles, it's fun".

Oh man, that part really rings true!

"And I'd rather wipe and see people learn, than wipe because the tank was like "lmao I was bored because I've done so much so I decided to do this naked and spin the boss in circles, it's fun"."

I'm still a newish player and just recently got into Bozja and started working on a Resistance Weapon, doing DR runs, and I kid you not that the guy who started Main Tanking was partway through the 2nd boss when he suddenly decided to turn off tank stance without little-to-no warning MID FIGHT so that someone else could continue tanking. He then spent the remainder of the run goofing off, dying left and right all over the place, and distracting folks with a non-stop commentary in the chat.

I get that some folks have been playing this game for a long time, but really, if you're that tired of playing the basics of the game then why are you still playing?

Yeah there are going to be jerks in DF. Just ignore them. If they want to bail, let them bail. I'm fine if tanks pull to their comfort level. If we're good at small pulls, I'll let them know I have their back if they want to try more but I'm also good where we are. I've gotten Mt Gulg a LOT lately and there are tanks who really need to dial it back. But because of the extreme "You must always do X" mantra, they push it too far over and over. I think any "must do this" idea is bad. You're cutting yourself off from being flexible and able to adjust when different situations arise. It's not just the tank, or the healer, or the dps who decide to success of a big pull. It's everyone. The tank needs to be able to mitigate, the healer needs to be able to keep up with heals, and (often something people disregard) the dps has to be high enough to burn things down quickly while the tank and healer still have abilities available. Anyone that PUGs a lot should be able to quickly assess the situation and adjust as needed.

Beautifully said! I PUG all of the time as I'm not in an FC, so between hopping between all 3 main roles, I've learned to get really, really good at quickly spotting strengths and weaknesses of folks I get in groups. Then based on that data, I adjust as best I can in the circumstances. Most of the time, it works really well!

The best groups work as an actual group, everyone either quickly communicating or paying attention and adjusting accordingly. Things always go awry when someone needs to become an internet hero and start barking at people to do things a certain way, aka, their way with little regard to what anyone else thinks.

[Izscha]

This goes both ways though. A lot of people throw tantrums using this exact phrasing; but don't realize they can't be the ones who get to dictate everything themselves either. If one person wants to go fast and one person wants to go slow; it's up to the group as a whole to decide the pace not the tank being obstinate and refusing to move past one pull or the healer rushing ahead and pulling everything like a brat. And unfortunately as frustrating as it is to deal with a slow group: one person trying to force the group to move faster than they want to can ruin things a lot more than one who wants to move slower. I've seen far too many wipes come from impatient people who kept trying to force players to move at speeds they weren't ready for and couldn't handle yet because the players will still learning their tools. This game's community has this weird mentality of "because I've done this content a lot and personally don't have a problem with it, then everyone else should always be on my level!" So you get people doing some of the most obnoxious things while screaming that it's unfair to ask them to slow down for three seconds because they've done this content so much they're tired of it and just want it over with.

These days I infinitely prefer to get tossed into a roulette full of sprouts over one full of veteran players because you can teach a newbie sprout how to play the game better if they're bad, how to learn mechanics and how to run a dungeon. In my personal experience - it's very rare to find a sprout, that isn't an alt at least, who acts like a complete tool. At worst you get nervous players who won't admit this is their first time and they don't know what to do because they're afraid of being yelled at that they should have watched a youtube video first. And I'd rather wipe and see people learn, than wipe because the tank was like "lmao I was bored because I've done so much so I decided to do this naked and spin the boss in circles, it's fun".

If i expected anyone to be at my "level" i would not use roulette at all.
I'm doing savage / ultimate stuff that's what i enjoy and i do know very well what's the average players skill in this game so no i dont expect anything from anyone.
Doesn't change the fact that i've never had any problem during my roulettes because you simply can't die in dungeon unless the healer is literally afk, not once it happened to me in all those years.
And yeah if anyone do feel like i should slow down, even if that's really rare maybe one out of 200 dungeons, i do 2 packs minimum 1 would bore me to death.
Even got that whm one time that was doing random stuff and totally drained all his mana for 0 reason, asked me to stop before a boss which i did.

[Ronduwil]

And it's never ok to waste 10+ more min because someone think that things must go his way no matter what.

I'm honestly befuddled by all the hostility towards someone who wants to leisurely enjoy their leisure time. I'm beginning to suspect the difference is generational. I remember being a kid and having to wait hours in line for a single ride at Disneyland. In contrast, when I took my kids, we picked up a fast pass that held our place until we were about 20 minutes out. It's disheartening to see the overwhelming majority of FFXIV forum goers upvoting tantrums over spending a few extra minutes in the dungeon. Thankfully, I don't see this as much in the game itself. If I did, I would be inclined to simply unsub and find something fun to do that doesn't entail someone shouting at me to hurry up.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I'm honestly befuddled by all the hostility towards someone who wants to leisurely enjoy their leisure time. I'm beginning to suspect the difference is generational. I remember being a kid and having to wait hours in line for a single ride at Disneyland. In contrast, when I took my kids, we picked up a fast pass that held our place until we were about 20 minutes out. It's disheartening to see the overwhelming majority of FFXIV forum goers upvoting tantrums over spending a few extra minutes in the dungeon. Thankfully, I don't see this as much in the game itself. If I did, I would be inclined to simply unsub and find something fun to do that doesn't entail someone shouting at me to hurry up.

I dunno man, back in my day everyone actually tried. You didn't tend to see people getting away with just getting carried through content.

It goes both ways lol.

There's a meme about tic tac toe that works pretty well here, but I'm too lazy to dig it up on mobile.

The "it's just a game" excuse is one that I really hate, because it's not just effecting you. It's effecting everyone else you are with.

[Ronduwil]

I dunno man, back in my day everyone actually tried. You didn't tend to see people getting away with just getting carried through content.

Speak for yourself. I did see people getting carried. All the time. Mechanics were a lot easier back in the day, and you didn't have this wall to wall pulling culture. In fact, I distinctly remember the go go go kid being a meme that most players mocked. Times change. As for "trying," trying to do what? Just because you want to take things slowly doesn't mean you're not trying to clear the content to the best of your ability. Some players have a goal of trying to win a non-existent race, and some players set their goal at successfully clearing the instance without wiping. By the latter metric, excessive pulls put the latter goal at risk, so I contend that wall to wall pulling is the opposite of trying to succeed at safely clearing the instance. It's not that players aren't trying. It's that players are trying to do different things.

I also remember having lots of fun in WoW back in the day doing bear runs, which were effectively on a timer and entailed wall-to-wall style pulling. So it's not that I don't like doing this kind of thing once in a while. It just seems like a stressful way to end the day when it's constant. I'm already dealing with deadlines in my every day job. I don't need a drill sergeant yelling at me to hurry up and get through the obstacle course at the end of the day when I'm just trying to unwind.

[Rokke]

I'm beginning to suspect the difference is generational. I remember being a kid and having to wait hours in line for a single ride at Disneyland. In contrast, when I took my kids, we picked up a fast pass that held our place until we were about 20 minutes out.

What a silly comparison. You didn't have to pick up a fast pass if you wanted a +45 min wait in the SoCal sun, you took it because it made for a more enjoyable day at disneyland lmao

I'll be DPSing. With my priority macro rotation that I have for almost every job.

I'm just going to accept that this thread is all masterful bait because the alternative is concerning.