"Swift completion" is relative to the game, not the community

[Elladie]

With the greatest of respect at what point would you reasonably expect a tank to know how to tank? GD is an easy dungeon even by level 70 standards and any tank who has actually played the role has tanked much more challenging dungeons already. When playing a multi-player game you do have a level of social responsibility and one of those responsibilities is to respect other players time and fun. It's not all about you. New tanks learning new content is obviously a thing, most of us have done it plenty of times and played with new tanks plenty of times but there is a bottom limit to what is generally seen as acceptable, single pulling GD would be well below that line.

If you can't tank to even the bottom end of reasonable, by DF dungeon standards by level 70 then you're just not cut out for tanking, pick another role. If someone boosts to that level and then can't do it they should have practiced first, nothing is stopping them from practicing in lower level content, the MSQ roulette is a great place to learn basic tanking at level 50 because even if both tanks suck you will still clear.

It's not toxic to expect a little respect and courtesy from fellow players, I have spent a lot of time on this forum arguing with people who I feel expect too much from newer players, and especially newer tanks. I have more patience than most and even I think going slow to "learn" GD is taking the piss.

I don't have expectations. People are different. Just because it takes me X time to learn X thing, that means nothing when considering a different person. I'm great at some stuff, I'm rubbish at others.

What I don't do is treat someone badly because they're not as good as I am at something. Or even just not good at the thing at all. If I behaved like that in my job, I'd soon find myself without a job. How much more then, should I behave like a decent human being in a game?

I'm never sure if I want to laugh or cry when I hear this stuff. It's a game. Your tank is nervous and wants to go a bit slower because he hasn't run the dungeon before. You've run it loads and you're sure he'll be fine. Coax him and help him and you end up with a commendation (possibly three), a more experienced tank and a nice feeling because you helped out. Or call him rude names and kick him. Totally up to you

[Kolaina]

I don’t like people /snip

Do you even go outside? Communicate with the general population at all? Maybe you cowering behind npc driven and single player content has only further developed your phobia. You are being irrational. If the duty finder, and the people in it are that bad, maybe its not them. But in the case that it is, you can always tab your chat over to battle info or customize one that leaves out say and party chat if you are really so sensitive.
Or you can pull those socks up and pull yourself together. Most of this community gets along just fine being thrown in with random. If you are that afraid, and that withdrawn, its less a community issue and more a personal one

[Izscha]

Do you even go outside? Communicate with the general population at all? Maybe you cowering behind npc driven and single player content has only further developed your phobia. You are being irrational. If the duty finder, and the people in it are that bad, maybe its not them. But in the case that it is, you can always tab your chat over to battle info or customize one that leaves out say and party chat if you are really so sensitive.
Or you can pull those socks up and pull yourself together. Most of this community gets along just fine being thrown in with random. If you are that afraid, and that withdrawn, its less a community issue and more a personal one

You too got that "shut-in" vibe coming from this ?
I don't understand how one can be so thin skinned unless they never go outside / interact with ppl or have a condition.
Not that it's bad, but you cant push the fault to others if it comes from you it makes no sense.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

You too got that "shut-in" vibe coming from this ?
I don't understand how one can be so thin skinned unless they never go outside / interact with ppl or have a condition.
Not that it's bad, but you cant push the fault to others if it comes from you it makes no sense.

I mean, I have high levels of anxiety around new people, I am quiet, the typical "book reading nerd who only has a few friends and gets bullied", yet I have very few issues in DF, or with tanking.

I'm sure it varies from person to person, but I've never really had issues in mmos outside of having to recruit for savage statics, or apply for them. Those are anxiety inducing to me, but I've mostly had good experiences.

[Izscha]

I mean, I have high levels of anxiety around new people, I am quiet, the typical "book reading nerd who only has a few friends and gets bullied", yet I have very few issues in DF, or with tanking.

I'm sure it varies from person to person, but I've never really had issues in mmos outside of having to recruit for savage statics, or apply for them. Those are anxiety inducing to me, but I've mostly had good experiences.

Yeah that's what i say, i dont not put the blame on those people they have a condition they deal with it but like if you have a phobia or anything related to people it comes from you, you know that already so why say that everyone else is the problem ?
That's the thing that bugged me in the initial message.

[Elladie]

@Kolaina

Wow, snap judgements much lol.

I don't like duty finder because I'm an old old lady who remembers when people in MMOs had to work together and treat each other well because the only folks they could party with were on their server. If they got a reputation as a dick, no one would play with them. DF makes it much easier to treat people badly and get away with it.

I'm lucky I don't need to put up with the drama and bad behaviour I've seen in DF because I have enough friends and FC mates to run content with.

No phobias, just prefer to have fun and chill with my friends. We don't do drama when we run roulette. Sometimes we go slow. Sometimes we do stupid big pulls - yes Mt Gulg, looking at you. But it has become clear to us over the eleven years we have played this game that it grows increasingly more pleasant to stick to our own little group than try to interact with strangers. It makes us sad that it's so, but that is our experience.

It bothers me too that you find it necessary to belittle me and my point - that the duty finder can be toxic for some people - by making personal attacks. If you're that concerned about my state of mind, why don't you try and be a bit more sympathetic about this 'phobia' I supposedly have? I imagine that if I did have a genuine problem in that area and somehow found the courage to speak up, your words would have been very cruel and vicious

[Kolaina]

It bothers me too that you find it necessary to belittle me and my point

You said you and your friends avoid df because its toxic. That would insinuate its more wide spread than the odd isolated incident here and there. But I’m belittling? No. You just have this belief things are worse than they are. Refraining from participating with the df community while simultaneously staying in your echo chamber, does nothing to heal your previous experience and fix any misconceptions you have about the df community

[Elladie]

You said you and your friends avoid df because its toxic. That would insinuate its more wide spread than the odd isolated incident here and there. But I’m belittling? No. You just have this belief things are worse than they are. Refraining from participating with the df community while simultaneously staying in your echo chamber, does nothing to heal your previous experience and fix any misconceptions you have about the df community

That's great then. Glad we're on the same page. So presumably you will be sympathetic and encouraging next time you get a tank who's pulling a bit slower than you prefer, right. Try and coax them into pulling more and improving their skills yeah. Instead of telling them to 'do it or else' like these (apparently mostly imaginary) toxic people do?

As a bit more clarification, there is just as much toxicity (in my experience) on the other side. I'm all for balance, but I'd much prefer we tried to err on the side of courtesy. When another player tries to give polite and helpful advice, 'you don't pay my sub' is not an acceptable response.

I'm not sure why asking people to be respectful of each other causes such a backlash. It's very sad

[aveyond-dreams]

One was a noobie tank running Ghimlyt Dark for the first time; he acknowledged he had stuff to learn still about both role and dungeon, but there was no excuse for the discourtesy he was shown.

Ghimlyt Dark is a level 70 dungeon. By level 70 it is expected for a tank to know how to pull at a decent pace and use cooldowns. If the tank cannot do this by level 70, they need to spend some time in the Hall of the Novice instead.

[Elladie]

Ghimlyt Dark is a level 70 dungeon. By level 70 it is expected for a tank to know how to pull at a decent pace and use cooldowns. If the tank cannot do this by level 70, they need to spend some time in the Hall of the Novice instead.

I have healed in FC runs he has tanked, he was competent but cautious. It was his first run of Ghimlyt Dark, and he wished to pull more slowly while he got a feel for the dungeon. A considerate person would have encouraged him to pull a little more, and then a little more than that, and tried to help him build confidence. Had it not been his first run, he would not have felt so tentative. As it was he was insulted and told to quit playing, which he did. This does not make me proud to be a member of this community. In fact whatever it is in the duty roulette, it's definitely not a community. More of an 'eat or get eaten' jungle