"Swift completion" is relative to the game, not the community

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

You mean after I hit shb I don't have to run rouletts with players anymore? Can I do this with pre-shb content? Be still my heart...

Yes and no. You have to unlock Squadrons, which shows up after you hit Second Lieutenant in your GC (I think), so you have to do some seal grinding and a few GC quests which lead you through a couple of side dungeons like Dzemael Darkhold and Aurum Vale.

Once you have them, you have to grind them a bit via normal missions in order to unlock Command missions, which allow you to take your gaggle of AI squadron buddies into select dungeons directly. And even then, they only go up to around level 60 dungeons iirc.

So there's a gap between 60 and 71 (where you unlock your first ShB dungeon with Trusts) where you have to either do regular dungeons, Fate grind, or do the Stormblood Palace of the Dead equivalent, Heaven-on-High. Which I believe unlocks once you get through the story around that little fishing village in the Ruby Sea, iirc.

[Izscha]

The thing poeple like you dont get is that you're not alone, it's others time too.
If they dont want to waste 30 min on a daily roulette it's totally fair even more when you have a limited time to play.
It's not up to only you to decide when it's a 4 ppl party if that's long run or not even more when you can take more as a tank, it's almost griefing at this point to force people around you to do things slowly because YOU want it like that.
So yeah i guess Trust system is better for you.

[Omedon]

So yeah i guess Trust system is better for you.

Believe me, if I had the option in the 60s to use NPCs I would (and no, running the vault to 71 doesn't count). My point is the 60s don't have that option, it's the only bracket with this problem post level 20, and it's never ok to be rude to someone pulling at a reasonable pace. I'm getting swift completion rewards. That is literally fast enough.

[Xirean]

Believe me, if I had the option in the 60s to use NPCs I would (and no, running the vault to 71 doesn't count). My point is the 60s don't have that option, it's the only bracket with this problem post level 20, and it's never ok to be rude to someone pulling at a reasonable pace. I'm getting swift completion rewards. That is literally fast enough.

Reasonable pace is heavily subjective. Many do not find single pulling to be reasonable. Hell in my experience it's actually most. But what I don't understand is why you want to do single pulls in the first place. It doesn't make any sense to me.

[Jijifli]

Believe me, if I had the option in the 60s to use NPCs I would (and no, running the vault to 71 doesn't count). My point is the 60s don't have that option, it's the only bracket with this problem post level 20, and it's never ok to be rude to someone pulling at a reasonable pace. I'm getting swift completion rewards. That is literally fast enough.

I've gotten swift completion reward on hour long dungeon hells before.

So unless an hour is still quick to Square for a dungeon you can do in 15, I think "Swift" just means "Please kill it."

[Dianoia]

The thing poeple like you dont get is that you're not alone, it's others time too.
If they dont want to waste 30 min on a daily roulette it's totally fair even more when you have a limited time to play.
It's not up to only you to decide when it's a 4 ppl party if that's long run or not even more when you can take more as a tank, it's almost griefing at this point to force people around you to do things slowly because YOU want it like that.
So yeah i guess Trust system is better for you.

So true. And if it were up to any one person, that person should be the healer, not the tank

[Izscha]

And it's never ok to waste 10+ more min because someone think that things must go his way no matter what.

[Dewslam]

And it's never ok to waste 10+ more min because someone think that things must go his way no matter what.

This goes both ways though. A lot of people throw tantrums using this exact phrasing; but don't realize they can't be the ones who get to dictate everything themselves either. If one person wants to go fast and one person wants to go slow; it's up to the group as a whole to decide the pace not the tank being obstinate and refusing to move past one pull or the healer rushing ahead and pulling everything like a brat. And unfortunately as frustrating as it is to deal with a slow group: one person trying to force the group to move faster than they want to can ruin things a lot more than one who wants to move slower. I've seen far too many wipes come from impatient people who kept trying to force players to move at speeds they weren't ready for and couldn't handle yet because the players will still learning their tools. This game's community has this weird mentality of "because I've done this content a lot and personally don't have a problem with it, then everyone else should always be on my level!" So you get people doing some of the most obnoxious things while screaming that it's unfair to ask them to slow down for three seconds because they've done this content so much they're tired of it and just want it over with.

These days I infinitely prefer to get tossed into a roulette full of sprouts over one full of veteran players because you can teach a newbie sprout how to play the game better if they're bad, how to learn mechanics and how to run a dungeon. In my personal experience - it's very rare to find a sprout, that isn't an alt at least, who acts like a complete tool. At worst you get nervous players who won't admit this is their first time and they don't know what to do because they're afraid of being yelled at that they should have watched a youtube video first. And I'd rather wipe and see people learn, than wipe because the tank was like "lmao I was bored because I've done so much so I decided to do this naked and spin the boss in circles, it's fun".

[Alxyzntlct]

This goes both ways though. A lot of people throw tantrums using this exact phrasing; but don't realize they can't be the ones who get to dictate everything themselves either. If one person wants to go fast and one person wants to go slow; it's up to the group as a whole to decide the pace not the tank being obstinate and refusing to move past one pull or the healer rushing ahead and pulling everything like a brat. And unfortunately as frustrating as it is to deal with a slow group: one person trying to force the group to move faster than they want to can ruin things a lot more than one who wants to move slower. I've seen far too many wipes come from impatient people who kept trying to force players to move at speeds they weren't ready for and couldn't handle yet because the players will still learning their tools. This game's community has this weird mentality of "because I've done this content a lot and personally don't have a problem with it, then everyone else should always be on my level!" So you get people doing some of the most obnoxious things while screaming that it's unfair to ask them to slow down for three seconds because they've done this content so much they're tired of it and just want it over with.

These days I infinitely prefer to get tossed into a roulette full of sprouts over one full of veteran players because you can teach a newbie sprout how to play the game better if they're bad, how to learn mechanics and how to run a dungeon. In my personal experience - it's very rare to find a sprout, that isn't an alt at least, who acts like a complete tool. At worst you get nervous players who won't admit this is their first time and they don't know what to do because they're afraid of being yelled at that they should have watched a youtube video first. And I'd rather wipe and see people learn, than wipe because the tank was like "lmao I was bored because I've done so much so I decided to do this naked and spin the boss in circles, it's fun".

Oh man, that part really rings true!

"And I'd rather wipe and see people learn, than wipe because the tank was like "lmao I was bored because I've done so much so I decided to do this naked and spin the boss in circles, it's fun"."

I'm still a newish player and just recently got into Bozja and started working on a Resistance Weapon, doing DR runs, and I kid you not that the guy who started Main Tanking was partway through the 2nd boss when he suddenly decided to turn off tank stance without little-to-no warning MID FIGHT so that someone else could continue tanking. He then spent the remainder of the run goofing off, dying left and right all over the place, and distracting folks with a non-stop commentary in the chat.

I get that some folks have been playing this game for a long time, but really, if you're that tired of playing the basics of the game then why are you still playing?

Yeah there are going to be jerks in DF. Just ignore them. If they want to bail, let them bail. I'm fine if tanks pull to their comfort level. If we're good at small pulls, I'll let them know I have their back if they want to try more but I'm also good where we are. I've gotten Mt Gulg a LOT lately and there are tanks who really need to dial it back. But because of the extreme "You must always do X" mantra, they push it too far over and over. I think any "must do this" idea is bad. You're cutting yourself off from being flexible and able to adjust when different situations arise. It's not just the tank, or the healer, or the dps who decide to success of a big pull. It's everyone. The tank needs to be able to mitigate, the healer needs to be able to keep up with heals, and (often something people disregard) the dps has to be high enough to burn things down quickly while the tank and healer still have abilities available. Anyone that PUGs a lot should be able to quickly assess the situation and adjust as needed.

Beautifully said! I PUG all of the time as I'm not in an FC, so between hopping between all 3 main roles, I've learned to get really, really good at quickly spotting strengths and weaknesses of folks I get in groups. Then based on that data, I adjust as best I can in the circumstances. Most of the time, it works really well!

The best groups work as an actual group, everyone either quickly communicating or paying attention and adjusting accordingly. Things always go awry when someone needs to become an internet hero and start barking at people to do things a certain way, aka, their way with little regard to what anyone else thinks.

[Izscha]

This goes both ways though. A lot of people throw tantrums using this exact phrasing; but don't realize they can't be the ones who get to dictate everything themselves either. If one person wants to go fast and one person wants to go slow; it's up to the group as a whole to decide the pace not the tank being obstinate and refusing to move past one pull or the healer rushing ahead and pulling everything like a brat. And unfortunately as frustrating as it is to deal with a slow group: one person trying to force the group to move faster than they want to can ruin things a lot more than one who wants to move slower. I've seen far too many wipes come from impatient people who kept trying to force players to move at speeds they weren't ready for and couldn't handle yet because the players will still learning their tools. This game's community has this weird mentality of "because I've done this content a lot and personally don't have a problem with it, then everyone else should always be on my level!" So you get people doing some of the most obnoxious things while screaming that it's unfair to ask them to slow down for three seconds because they've done this content so much they're tired of it and just want it over with.

These days I infinitely prefer to get tossed into a roulette full of sprouts over one full of veteran players because you can teach a newbie sprout how to play the game better if they're bad, how to learn mechanics and how to run a dungeon. In my personal experience - it's very rare to find a sprout, that isn't an alt at least, who acts like a complete tool. At worst you get nervous players who won't admit this is their first time and they don't know what to do because they're afraid of being yelled at that they should have watched a youtube video first. And I'd rather wipe and see people learn, than wipe because the tank was like "lmao I was bored because I've done so much so I decided to do this naked and spin the boss in circles, it's fun".

If i expected anyone to be at my "level" i would not use roulette at all.
I'm doing savage / ultimate stuff that's what i enjoy and i do know very well what's the average players skill in this game so no i dont expect anything from anyone.
Doesn't change the fact that i've never had any problem during my roulettes because you simply can't die in dungeon unless the healer is literally afk, not once it happened to me in all those years.
And yeah if anyone do feel like i should slow down, even if that's really rare maybe one out of 200 dungeons, i do 2 packs minimum 1 would bore me to death.
Even got that whm one time that was doing random stuff and totally drained all his mana for 0 reason, asked me to stop before a boss which i did.