"Swift completion" is relative to the game, not the community

[Omedon]

Well, after a thankfully low grand total of two bad experiences, (both healers in Shisui of the Violet Tides, which is oddly specific), I have leveled every tanking job to 70 or higher. 70-71 is the province of pixie dailies, and so I can confidently say that while thankfully my experience has been largely positive, a lot of this thread has more than convinced me to never, ever tank for live players (in a trinity compliant 4-person group or "non-MSQ-roulette" situation) ever again unless it's backfill for a group of friends.

Vocal segments of this community here on the forums have a real problem with taking their years of experience in the game for granted in their expectations of others that are just leveling an alt job whose role is one of either sudden burden of leadership (tank) or suddenly inheriting the fates of everyone's survival (healer). I don't care that deep dungeons are an option (that is in fact how I leveled my healers), what I've seen in this thread has been largely a disappointing underscore of the darkest side of an otherwise amazing community: In creating such an arms-open community image, you have perverted the sense of communal neighborliness into a "home owner's society" of expectations of extreme, overt "care" for "everyone else before the self."

My tanking pace is fine, so sayeth far more players in groups than there were voices on this forum thread. The healer that can't handle multi-pulls (I had one last night while leveling MCH, bless her heart) is not bad at the game. Your expectations of other people adapting to the GOGOGOdancers among you are skewed, unwelcoming, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if this was part of the reason trusts exists because trusts are a solution to a problem WoW has too: As superior as FFXIV's community vibe is overall, the community's treatment of a new or less experienced player is in fact a major variable that the devs cannot control, and this thread is clearly indicative of the fact that so many of you can't be trusted to be "a feature and not a bug." Thank goodness for AI scions!

I prize the quiet "I'm not touching this discussion" likes on the more reasonable posts in this thread far more than all the discouraging, disappointing remarks that seem to demand we constantly improve "just in case I have to play with you." I have most jobs to 70 or higher (waiting for the extended armory bonus in EW to go further), 3 jobs at 80, and I can honestly say when it comes to "performance level" that there is a hard plateau in the give-a-damn spectrum that is literally, intentionally, objectively "good enough," and that bar is far, far lower than many here would have us stop "improving"... well guess what: good enough is good enough. This whole thread was about leveling content, and good enough is good enough. Yes, even on YOUR time. Shame on any of you taking your later game content standards and applying them here.

To those in this thread who were more representative of the majority I met in my "tanking through the 60's" journey, the chill, the kind, and the "go at your pace" players, the people for whom I made a macro thanking most groups for not being abusive: you have preserved my faith in this game's community. Thank you for having the courage to gainsay the angry mob of "but you need to play better because I have standards and my time is precious!!"

I come away from this thread glad that it's not the game, and will smile when we meet the closedminded "forum" of old Sharlayan, as I wonder how intentional that wordplay is.

See you in a few trials every couple years, or in the MSQ roulette. I'll be DPSing. With my priority macro rotation that I have for almost every job.

[Kolaina]

With my priority macro rotation that I have for almost every job.

Lol
/10 chars

[BaconBits]

Snippity.

The less moral grandstanding I have to see on this board, the better.

[nebby00]

snip

[Kolaina]

With my priority macro rotation that I have for almost every job.

I’ll elaborate beyond laughing at this. I post on an alt character because i have controversial views compared to the bleeding hearts on these forums. Ive seen people call for the mass reporting of someone in eureka for pulling a notorious monster 5 minutes after it spawned simply for not waiting for that individual. So i protect myself from those people. Those who target and attempt to ban or harass. However. I now know what kind of player you are. Refuse to try. Don’t want to get better. A macro player. You can bet you won’t go passed the 5 minute limit in a duty with me. I play with the power of vote. I don’t like to use it. But if you’re going to hold me back, and “play” (if you want to call macroing playing) with the attitude of your leisure and laziness > my time and enjoyment, well bud, your gone.

[MaxCarnage]

See you in a few trials every couple years, or in the MSQ roulette. I'll be DPSing. With my priority macro rotation that I have for almost every job.

You'll get an instant vote-kick from me too LOL

[Ronduwil]

A macro player. You can bet you won’t go passed the 5 minute limit in a duty with me. I play with the power of vote. I don’t like to use it. But if you’re going to hold me back, and “play” (if you want to call macroing playing) with the attitude of your leisure and laziness > my time and enjoyment, well bud, your gone.

You'll get an instant vote-kick from me too LOL

Be honest. Unless you're using a parser (which is technically against ToS), you're never even going to know he's using a macro. Good luck getting him vote kicked. I've yet to see a player vote kicked for doing anything other than maliciously refusing to participate or for repeatedly and deliberately pulling bosses before the raid was ready. Kicking someone for low DPS isn't a thing in this game, and I personally think that's a good thing.

[LittleImp]

Be honest. Unless you're using a parser (which is technically against ToS), you're never even going to know he's using a macro. Good luck getting him vote kicked. I've yet to see a player vote kicked for doing anything other than maliciously refusing to participate or for repeatedly and deliberately pulling bosses before the raid was ready.

Trust me, you don't need a parser to tell when someone is playing like this. It's also highly likely that someone who is willing to play like this is also willing to make other poor game-related decisions, such as performing their rotation incorrectly or frequently tabbing out during pulls. Players are rarely only bad at exactly one aspect of a game; Being this 'bad' is usually mindset related, and tends to affect your play on multiple levels.

Kicking someone for low DPS isn't a thing in this game, and I personally think that's a good thing.

It is, but it's exceedingly rare. There is a point at which low DPS can become genuinely obstructive, and I've seen kicks go through in dungeons over it. One instance was a DRG who only used his single target combo via a macro in Malikahs Well; His contribution to the party was so low that it made double pulls almost impossible, as the tank and healer exhausted all of their cooldowns by the time the first pull was over. Another instance involved a BLM, ironically in the same dungeon, who was only casting thunder spells and the occasional blizzard.

I'd also like to point out that it's extremely rare to receive public flak in-game for the way you are playing, so when someone complains that they are repeatedly being dogged on by other players its a huge red flag. It means that they're either playing at the level as mentioned above, obstructive, or are unstable and read every single interaction as an attack or slight.

[SturmChurro]

It is, but it's exceedingly rare. There is a point at which low DPS can become genuinely obstructive, and I've seen kicks go through in dungeons over it. One instance was a DRG who only used his single target combo via a macro in Malikahs Well; His contribution to the party was so low that it made double pulls almost impossible, as the tank and healer exhausted all of their cooldowns by the time the first pull was over. Another instance involved a BLM, ironically in the same dungeon, who was only casting thunder spells and the occasional blizzard.

I'd also like to point out that it's extremely rare to receive public flak in-game for the way you are playing, so when someone complains that they are repeatedly being dogged on by other players its a huge red flag. It means that they're either playing at the level as mentioned above, obstructive, or are unstable and read every single interaction as an attack or slight.

Too true. Good DPS helps everyone in the party out. Not using a proper rotation, or, God forbid, AoEs, puts unnecessary stress on the rest of the party.

I only really get 'attacked' for "not healing" when playing my WHM, but I never really see it otherwise.

[Avidria]

Kicking someone for low DPS isn't a thing in this game, and I personally think that's a good thing.

Honestly that's probably half because of how insanely forgiving literally everything outside actual current endgame raiding is more than anything. Like low dps will absolutely make a run noticeably slower, but me personally I usually just don't care enough to say or do anything about it unless the person is literally doing nothing.

What's wild is, while I have absolutely seen people do that (shout-out to that one whm that spent almost an entire e6 running around doing mechanics but casting nothing????) It's also just... Generally easier to ignore in this game. Maybe part of that IS because I don't have numbers on my screen telling me someone is performing abysmally, but I also... don't really need the numbers to be able to tell most of the time. Idk. It's interesting to think about.

But I also think I'm a lot more mellow now than I was when I played, say, WoW. Even then I probably kicked as many people for whining about dps as I did for doing bad (read: literally afk) dps so I mean : p shrug lmao