"Swift completion" is relative to the game, not the community

[Nishira]

I’d give different examples of corresponding situations in daily life LittleImp. An old lady who is a bit slow when checking out. A student who doesn’t grasp something and they need a bit of time and patience to get there. Someone who is timid and simply doesn’t have the kind of personality to jump right in.

Yes, you’ll bump into players who don’t play optimally. No, they don’t do that to torment others. It’s a simple fact that ability and execution will vary. It’s been that way from the start of mmo’s, it will be so till the end. It’s pointless to try battle that, there is no battle. I usually ask myself when someone is frustrating me: are they frustrating me, or am I frustrating me? And it’s most of the time the latter, because of unrealistic expectations.

The devs here very obviously have zero intention of setting some arbitrary bar for their playerbase. Have fun, enjoy the story, love the music, glam your heart out. Instead of saying: well we’re not the devs, we set the rules here! maybe see the beauty of their intention. Personally I appreciate it.

[LittleImp]

-snip-

It's a simple part of human nature to become frustrated when certain types of repetitive activities take more time than expected, particularly when the wait feels unjustified.

Bolding the part of my original post that you appear to have glossed over. It's obviously wrong to be upset because you're held up in traffic due to a fatal accident, or stuck in line because someone is struggling physically.

Most of this thread hasn't been about genuine inability or disability; It's been about about matters of inefficiency driven by difficult to justify personal preference, caused by players being either emotionally irrational, or incompetent by choice. The OP of the thread bragged about his great ability as a tank, and went on to state that he makes a personal decision to play in a way that is widely considered detrimental after a certain point in the game. It's also important to understand that genuine disability affects a very small amount of the player-base, and that the absolute vast majority of incidents like this do not involve someone who suffers in that way. This of course underscores why communication is important; Judgement should always be withheld until you've asked why the tank is pulling one pack at a time.

1) A bored healer is a good tank's greatest compliment. My giving you as "free" a ride as possible is a gift I strive to give, in thanks for playing the most stressful role and moving the queue along!

2) Again, if there were trusts in the 60's, I'd already be in the clear of never ever queueing to play with live players. Trust me (get it?!) in another 11 total job levels, y'all will almost certainly never see me tanking for you ever again!

^ This is an example of the mindset that people are generally arguing against. OP and others have been framing their choice to intentionally play poorly as good gameplay, or a responsible 'gift' to other players.

[Artemiz]

I’d give different examples of corresponding situations in daily life LittleImp. An old lady who is a bit slow when checking out. A student who doesn’t grasp something and they need a bit of time and patience to get there. Someone who is timid and simply doesn’t have the kind of personality to jump right in.

I don't think it's a fair comparison to compare people who get frustrated at slow tanks in an easy dungeon to the kind of person too impatient to wait for an old lady for a minute.

As for the student, the more accurate comparison is if the whole class has to learn at the same pace as the slowest student. It would be unfair on everyone else, especially if said student was learning slow because they couldn't be bothered to use all the tools at their disposal, didnt do any research and wouldn't listen to advice.

As for the timid person, nobody made them jump straight into expert roulette. People should, and for the most part do have more patience with low level tanks. If someone is really anxious though practice at lower levels and/or with NPC's first.

You have the right to play the game how you see fit, in your own time. You do not have the right to force everyone else to lay at the bottom of the barrel with you.

[Nishira]

Hmm I meant more that you often won’t know why someone is slower, or is a less effective player. So assuming the worst reasons for the behaviour will put you in a foul mood, cursing DF… while if you simply assume it may have far more innocent reasons that you would be considerate of if you knew, creates a different feeling towards it, and them. At least, that has always been my own experience. I hardly ever suspect foul play and trust people try their best, even if it’s not great, and that’s good enough for me.

In that sense I meant more the initial mindset, how do you perceive certain behaviour and what do you translate it into.

And an edit because I feel I was still not clear. My examples would be the way I reason, my assumptions about situations. I’m not saying you would be a douche there LittleImp , more that your examples might put you in a worse mood than if you experienced it more innocently. I know what I mean, putting it into words is hard! Grr

[Rinhi]

Hmm I meant more that you often won’t know why someone is slower, or is a less effective player. So assuming the worst reasons for the behaviour will put you in a foul mood, cursing DF…

often enough it is obvious that it's simple laziness on their end, though, and because the community is obsessed with being 'nice and non-confrontational', those players get carried through content they should be kicked from - because people would rather spend more time in content than try to convince the others to kick them because those others might kick them in return to show how great and 'nice' they are and whatnot

on the topic of laziness; you can see it in PF too, a friend is grinding DR for the relic and made a PF for essence runs for it and guess what? she had to kick 10+ people because they didn't use any essences and expected to be carried by the rest

[Izscha]

Hmm I meant more that you often won’t know why someone is slower, or is a less effective player. So assuming the worst reasons for the behaviour will put you in a foul mood, cursing DF… while if you simply assume it may have far more innocent reasons that you would be considerate of if you knew, creates a different feeling towards it, and them. At least, that has always been my own experience. I hardly ever suspect foul play and trust people try their best, even if it’s not great, and that’s good enough for me.

In that sense I meant more the initial mindset, how do you perceive certain behaviour and what do you translate it into.

And an edit because I feel I was still not clear. My examples would be the way I reason, my assumptions about situations. I’m not saying you would be a douche there LittleImp , more that your examples might put you in a worse mood than if you experienced it more innocently. I know what I mean, putting it into words is hard! Grr

While i do truly admire your optimistic view on things and the community as a whole, being way too optimistic doesn't mean that what you think ppl do is true.
Anyone with a trained eye / a bit of experience in the game can see how a lot truly dont care about being decent and are here just to get carried, it's human nature afterall to do the less possible and have the maximum profit out of it.

[Lunalepsy]

To each their own.

[Payadopa]

It's important to understand that the moral framework of this type of person is essentially "I am a good person; ergo, anything I do is morally justified and anyone who disagrees with me is a bad person". They rely almost completely on constructing strawmen and insulting the nature of their opposition because engaging with the actual content of the arguments presented would call their established beliefs about their own morality into question.

It's a simple part of human nature to become frustrated when certain types of repetitive activities take more time than expected, particularly when the wait feels unjustified. If a karen is holding up the checkout line at a shop because they're screaming at the cashier and trying to redeem expired coupons, most of the people waiting will be justifiably frustrated. If someone is stuck in traffic on their commute home because someone else has decided to drive 20 mph on a one-lane highway, they'll probably get frustrated. If a tank who has reached the latter half of the game refuses to pull more than a single pack at a time out of personal preference, most players will be reasonably frustrated, particularly if the person continues when asked by the party to pull more, or god forbid has a meltdown as these types often do.

People that grandstand on these types issues generally aren't ascendant moral beings. Typically their need to constantly signal their morality and righteousness, while attempting to undermine people with completely reasonable grievances or arguments is actually a strong indicator that they're not a great person. If you spend time on FFXIV twitter, you see a ton of this kind of behavior

Well, that works both ways. People here can bemoan it as much as they want and be angry but the majority doesn't care. But sure, cheer yourself on in your quest for self-righteousness. lol Keep egging yourself on till you can't even tolerate someone not being as good at playing a video game or waste your time or something. In a DF setting you get what you get. I can't even pretend I'm worked up about a run taking a few minutes longer. And I'll still check my gear before trudging on.

And just to give an example of where I personally am coming from, I work on an ITU (ICU for my Americans friends) and I see people dying/suffering on a daily basis. Can't be helped, especially with the current pandemic. (The shout-out for YoshiP was a really nice gesture by the way )
I'm not losing any sleep whatsoever over a run taking longer or we are wiping in DF. For me that's just silly.

[Kolaina]

Well, that works both ways. People here can bemoan it as much as they want and be angry but the majority doesn't care. But sure, cheer yourself on in your quest for self-righteousness. lol Keep egging yourself on till you can't even tolerate someone not being as good at playing a video game or waste your time or something. In a DF setting you get what you get. I can't even pretend I'm worked up about a run taking a few minutes longer. And I'll still check my gear before trudging on.

And just to give an example of where I personally am coming from, I work on an ITU (ICU for my Americans friends) and I see people dying/suffering on a daily basis. Can't be helped, especially with the current pandemic. (The shout-out for YoshiP was a really nice gesture by the way )
I'm not losing any sleep whatsoever over a run taking longer or we are wiping in DF. For me that's just silly.

What else is silly is not striving to become better. Being content with mediocrity.
Generally people won’t touch a comment with real life situations as you have included. But we are talking about a video game. Not the icu. In a video game you are given challenges to overcome. Overcoming challenges requires some form of progression, including personal skill level. Some people choose to get better. Strive to get better. Others are content as being passable, even if barely. Then there’s the enablers. The people who say “they’re doing fine” to healers that spam only medica 2 or yo tanks who pull a pack at a time. The 80 BLM doin a 50 rotation.
Self righteousness. Lol. Coming from the side that stands against those who ask for people to look higher. To reach for just a little more

[Illmaeran]

What else is silly is not striving to become better. Being content with mediocrity.

Generally people won’t touch a comment with real life situations as you have included.

Here's another real life example. I went through nearly a year of incredibly intense chemotherapy a couple of years ago. Due to that I've got cognitive impairment, as in my brain no longer works as quickly or as flexibly as before and my reflexes are shot. This means I can no longer play Dragoon in a group setting as I simply can't do the rotation, keep track of positionals, and stay out of the bad. In short; since coming back to the game I've had to stop playing the class I've mained since 2014 when in groups. This absolutely kills me as I LOVE Dragoon, but to avoid catching pushback from strangers, "being mediocre" or "passable", or, God Forbid, not be able to get through a boss encounter no matter how many times I try it, I've stopped.

Now, tell me why in the world I should have had to make this choice. I'll tell you why, because people like you who hate on "casuals", "lessers", "noobs", etc complaining about people who aren't, and my never be, playing up to your expectations and ruining your enjoyment. You know what? Having to quit playing the class I love to avoid catching flak ruins my enjoyment. You will never know if the person on the other side of the screen is doing their best or completely slacking off so have some empathy and relax.