"Swift completion" is relative to the game, not the community

[Omedon]

Okay, I need to do this, on behalf of all tanks, on behalf of everyone else's queue times: For those we have lost, for those we can yet save.

I have been "the community tank" among my circle of friends in multiple games (not just WoW) since before FFXIV launched. Sadly, they're not all playing FFXIV at this time. I have, according to everyone I know personally who have opinions (that aren't always peachy) on such things, great instincts as a tank. I make sure to compliment my healers unless they're asleep at the wheel (in which case I'm just quiet, not insulting), I pull in a way that keeps the party moving, and mitigate regularly to make everyone's lives less stressful. I don't say this to toot my horn, I say this for context to launch into my core point.

99% of my experience leaving my comfort zone in leveling my tank jobs (meaning when I work with live players and not squads/trusts) has been lovely, as the FFXIV community often is. I disclaim at the beginning of each dungeon that I usually tank for NPCs, and so my chops going faster than those NPC groups require (more on that in a moment) are intentionally, rather pointedly not developed, and so please bear with me as I absolutely do not pull wall to wall. My usual disclaimer is shorter and more polite than that but I'm just covering all bases of intent in a longer form here. Most of the time, the response is anywhere from a neutrally implied thumbs up to an encouraging "go at your pace, have fun," but every now and then (and for some mindblowing reason it's usually the healer) I get someone for whom that is not acceptable. Whether it's teasing me and letting me die just as encounters end for the whole run, or straight up bailing on the group, I have in fact had my "just X more levels until trusts and I'll never have to deal with this again" impulses reinforced by someone flogging my back as a tank, and one comment that stood out among those that started with logic before leaning into rudeness was this:

"It says more rewards for swift completion so that means you need to go faster!"

I recently paid attention to this detail, pulling one clearly delineated group at a time, not lollygagging between pulls, and just... playing like those NPC parties (and a decade of multi-game experience!) had conditioned me to play, because (and this is where I perhaps get very controversial) I believe that these AI party systems are indeed meant to communicate the way the game is meant by the devs to be played. (Edit to add something that came up below in response to a very good point: )

I guess what I was getting at with that "intended" line probably should have been phrased more as "not wrong." It is not wrong to play the dungeon one pull at a time, the way the AI parties flatout necessitate, and it is absolutely not worthy of rudeness or abuse. I think we can all agree on that.

I'm talking leveling content here, to be clear. Anyway, pulling as I usually do... we got the "swift completion" acknowledgement and rewards at the end, and I felt vindicated.

"Swift" is their definition, not yours maximizing your minutes and flogging a tank that can't wait to get out of the "NPC dungeon party dead zone" that are the 60's. It's not even a matter of (to paraphrase one flogging healer) "you're getting to a level where wall to wall is expected," because guess what... trusts are also just around the corner, so no, that won't be a thing.

My plea to all in this thread, especially in stormblood dungeons whose specific non-roulette queues are in fact the fastest way to get a tank through the 60's, is to keep in mind that the community expected pace means less than ever with trusts having the back of every enthusiastic dungeoneer that doesn't want to deal with community baggage.

Pestering the tank is how your queue times get longer, so please be kind.

Thank you for reading, and for the majority of you, thank you for being so very understanding and kind. I have literally 15 total tank levels left until all my tank jobs are into trusts, and you'll likely never have to deal with me again as a tank, I promise!

[Izscha]

because (and this is where I perhaps get very controversial) I believe that these AI party systems are indeed meant to communicate the way the game is meant by the devs to be played.

I will just answer about this part, because all the other thing you say even if i disagree with it's up to you anyway.

There is no definition of how the game should be played, even more when it comes to devs opinion on it.
All they can do is using mecanics to force you to play in a way but that's the limit of their powers over us.
And it's true to any games, that's why speedruns do exist in first place and how you can break games to do stuff you were not intended to do.
AI runs or Trust system is just an aid nothing more nothing else it's not here to teach you anything anyway ( Even more when it's way too late in the game , you're supposed to know what to do since long before you can even do those ).
So no it's just an answer to some ppl that wanted it so they can queue things alone if they want or just do story stuff without having to wait a long time, QoL stuff for a small part of the playerbase.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

The devs have also said that trusts are intentionally made slower than df runs so they don't become the preferred way to do dungeons by the majority.

So they intentionally slowed down the trusts, they do less damage and don't aoe

[Omedon]

The devs have also said that trusts are intentionally made slower than df runs so they don't become the preferred way to do dungeons by the majority.

So they intentionally slowed down the trusts, they do less damage and don't aoe

I do respect this point, but as a counterpoint: I think you underestimate the patience of an abused tank. I love the scions, and my squad, as they are never unkind!

[Xirean]

Considering the fact that Trusts are not required in order to do anything they can't really be "how the devs intend for the game to be played". I've literally never run with trusts once. If the devs intended for me to run content like that then they would have to force me to do so.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I do respect this point, but as a counterpoint: I think you underestimate the patience of an abused tank. I love the scions, and my squad, as they are never unkind!

OK, but that is still not "the way the devs intended" and just your personal way of dealing with tanking.

[Omedon]

OK, but that is still not "the way the devs intended" and just your personal way of dealing with tanking.

I guess what I was getting at with that "intended" line probably should have been phrased more as "not wrong." It is not wrong to play the dungeon one pull at a time, the way the AI parties flatout necessitate, and it is absolutely not worthy of rudeness or abuse. I think we can all agree on that.

[Izscha]

The thing poeple like you dont get is that you're not alone, it's others time too.
If they dont want to waste 30 min on a daily roulette it's totally fair even more when you have a limited time to play.
It's not up to only you to decide when it's a 4 ppl party if that's long run or not even more when you can take more as a tank, it's almost griefing at this point to force people around you to do things slowly because YOU want it like that.
So yeah i guess Trust system is better for you.

[Omedon]

So yeah i guess Trust system is better for you.

Believe me, if I had the option in the 60s to use NPCs I would (and no, running the vault to 71 doesn't count). My point is the 60s don't have that option, it's the only bracket with this problem post level 20, and it's never ok to be rude to someone pulling at a reasonable pace. I'm getting swift completion rewards. That is literally fast enough.

[Izscha]

And it's never ok to waste 10+ more min because someone think that things must go his way no matter what.