The Problems With Ninja In Endwalker

[FoxCh40s]

Have they said anything regarding this by any chance?

Do the devs usually take advice from the NA side or are they mostly listening to JP?

If they mostly listen to JP only then i hope they are talking about this too..

The skill really needs to not be broken when using other combat actions. That's the main thing. Bonus points for being OGCD.

Honestly? Neither.

[Warlyx]

Hollow Nozuchi is a bit confusing, in that it can't be assigned to a hotbar, and must follow Hakke Mujinsatsu. Does the Hakke button change to Hollow after being used in a Doton?

If it happens simultaneously with Hakke, it wouldn't need it's own 1.5 sec CD, which implies that it's a separate action. If it is, it's damage falloff after first target would mean a DPS loss over just looping back to Death Blossom after Hakke.

no hakke is just a proc

it works like that > put doton down , use death blossom> hakke and hollow procs here, on all the mobs that are on doton aoe its free aoe dmg while u do your aoe rotation

[SamSmoot]

no hakke is just a proc

it works like that > put doton down , use death blossom> hakke and hollow procs here, on all the mobs that are on doton aoe its free aoe dmg while u do your aoe rotation

Thanks, Seems more like a trait than an action.

[SamSmoot]

How it is based off the Media Tour is that if you were to execute Raiton, then proceed to do any other weaponskill (Gust, Aeolian, etc), you WILL lose your Forked Raiju Ready buff. If any weaponskill breaks Raiju Ready, then you're absolutely forced to use them back-to-back. Only thing that doesn't is ninjutsus (excluding Raiton), but there's no optimal situation where you'd even do that without taking some sort of loss.

It's not like Raiton makes you do the Raijus.. If using them would put you in the fire, then just play as you did before they were added, and use them later when you can.
Same as when you move away from the boss to avoid an AOE. You can't use melee distance actions without running back into the bad stuff, so you just don't use them.

[kackal_Jackal]

It's not like Raiton makes you do the Raijus.. If using them would put you in the fire, then just play as you did before they were added, and use them later when you can.
Same as when you move away from the boss to avoid an AOE. You can't use melee distance actions without running back into the bad stuff, so you just don't use them.

It's not like the Raiton makes you do the Raijus - sure, you don't have to if you don't really care for min-maxing. For every Savage fight in SHB, NIN can greed everything and keep their GCD rolling without taking a heavy loss. At worst its a Raiton out of Trick to dodge a mechanic, that's negligible. Like roughly 40p. If we choose to drop Raiju because we have no other choice, the loss is far more noticeable. Not using capstone skills in most cases is a loss. Since most mechanics happen during Trick, we're looking at the potential of dropping Raiju more often than once in a fight, which builds up, and gives NIN far less flexibility in prog, especially in Savage that have DPS checks within the first few days of release.

[SamSmoot]

It's not like the Raiton makes you do the Raijus - sure, you don't have to if you don't really care for min-maxing. For every Savage fight in SHB, NIN can greed everything and keep their GCD rolling without taking a heavy loss. At worst its a Raiton out of Trick to dodge a mechanic, that's negligible. Like roughly 40p. If we choose to drop Raiju because we have no other choice, the loss is far more noticeable. Not using capstone skills in most cases is a loss. Since most mechanics happen during Trick, we're looking at the potential of dropping Raiju more often than once in a fight, which builds up, and gives NIN far less flexibility in prog, especially in Savage that have DPS checks within the first few days of release.

I just see the raijus as something that you can't use all the time, so it's expected potency should take that into account. When you can use it, it's a bonus.
It's like Trick Attack which can't be kept up all the time, so I don't consider it a loss when it's not up.

[kackal_Jackal]

I just see the raijus as something that you can't use all the time, so it's expected potency should take that into account. When you can use it, it's a bonus.
It's like Trick Attack which can't be kept up all the time, so I don't consider it a loss when it's not up.

It's detrimental to our damage if we just felt like dropping/losing a Trick in the duration of a fight though. So an example is if you held Trick for 20s due to a 'hard' (but doable under burst) mechanic, but you kill the boss just as Trick is ready to be used. In that case, you'd use Trick Attack on cooldown so you can get another 15s of vulnerability on the boss. Of course you can't keep Trick Attack debuff on the boss 100% of the time, but the best thing we can do is have that debuff on the boss as much as possible, and prevent holding or drifting unless you don't lose a use.

The issue is that we're going into Endwalker losing Shadowfang (1100p every 60s), and getting Raiju and Phantom in return which is hardly comparable. But the idea of SE designing a job with the thought of "you can only use this ability 50-75% of the time" is really jarring in terms of design. Players are going to want to use Raiju, even in dangerous situations, and not having that option to hold it until later will feel extremely bad to play. I'm willing to pass with it being a gapcloser if it had some sort of Further Ruin stack system where you can store the Raiju charge for later.

[AnotherPerson]

But the idea of SE designing a job with the thought of "you can only use this ability 50-75% of the time" is really jarring in terms of design. Players are going to want to use Raiju, even in dangerous situations, and not having that option to hold it until later will feel extremely bad to play. I'm willing to pass with it being a gapcloser if it had some sort of Further Ruin stack system where you can store the Raiju charge for later.

This is what I say when I tell people Dissipation is bad but hey, apparently some people like not being able to use their skills on cooldown (due to how Dissipation can delay fairy skills or you use fairy skills but lose a Dissipation in prog) - which also directly translates to having an even longer cooldown than suggested.

[CynthiaStar]

This is what I say when I tell people Dissipation is bad but hey, apparently some people like not being able to use their skills on cooldown (due to how Dissipation can delay fairy skills or you use fairy skills but lose a Dissipation in prog) - which also directly translates to having an even longer cooldown than suggested.

Lets say you lose 1 Dissipation in the fight due to holding the CD and lets say you would use only Energy Drain for all three Aetherflow stacks. You just gained 30 potency and some free movement, this is because Broil is 290 potency and the combined Ruin 2 and Energy drain is 300 potency. However you cannot hold Raijus so if you do not use them and instead do Gust Slash 330p > Aeolian Edge 420p (which is not guaranteed, its just the highest potency combo of gcds) You just lost 100 potency while gaining free movement because both Raijus together are 850 potency. Now apply all the extra damage increases that a party has and the effective potency loss just increases more and more.

There is of course a lot more to it because AE gives more Ninki than Raiju and so may give you an extra bhava which is 300p, but throughout a fight if you lose 100p for every lot of raiju not used its going to add up. That's a 500p loss every 2 minutes if you didn't use them at all and the ninki loss over those 2 minutes is sometimes enough to get another bhava, which would put you back to a 200p loss.
Now consider that most savage boss fights are 8+ minutes long so its a potential loss between 800-2000p (likely to be an average of about 1400p) and for the longer 10+ minute fights it just gets worse.

Its not going to be an okay thing to not use Raiju when progging the savage raid tier. It would be like just choosing to not use Displacement on RDM through a whole fight and expecting it to make no difference. The whole reason RDM's Engagement was changed to the same level and potency as Displacement was because it was dangerous to use a backstep in a lot of fights and sometimes was just outright a death. The same is the case for all gap closers though all other gap closers are not mandatory use or lose skills, they are normally all ogcds and a lot of them have charges and/or no potency. Ninja has GCD, no charges and potency on them.

[AnotherPerson]

Lets say you lose 1 Dissipation in the fight due to holding the CD and lets say you would use only Energy Drain for all three Aetherflow stacks. You just gained 30 potency and some free movement, this is because Broil is 290 potency and the combined Ruin 2 and Energy drain is 300 potency. However you cannot hold Raijus so if you do not use them and instead do Gust Slash 330p > Aeolian Edge 420p (which is not guaranteed, its just the highest potency combo of gcds) You just lost 100 potency while gaining free movement because both Raijus together are 850 potency. Now apply all the extra damage increases that a party has and the effective potency loss just increases more and more.

You don't gain 30 potency - All healer's nukes are being reworked to be 1.5 secs in Endwalker, so you lose 3 aetherflow worth of energy drains. Ruin II is an absolute loss in DPS now. You don't want to weave Ruin II with Energy Drain.

And yes, I'm not arguing that it's bad design, because both are bad design. ._.