The Problems With Ninja In Endwalker

[AC9Breaker]

You're comparing 6gcd's vs 3gcd's here. Don't forget that after your 3 Forked/Fleeing Raiju you proceed with your Aeolian combo, so it's actually 1200+ 1350 before the patch vs. 1680 + 900 after the patch.

lol damn im dumb. Thank you for pointing out the obvious that I missed. After playing a few instances with it. The change isn't so bad. In fact this feels more natural. This is actually a buff for a ninja but only if you use your skills correctly and a nerf if you don't play correctly. The phantom kamitachi change is nice too. All in all these are nuanced changes that are pretty good once you get really get into it.

[Satarn]

I think these changes are fantastic. I usually expect SE to respond to any issues with the most backwards solution possible, but this time they've surprised me. Not only does it solve the max melee and binding issues, it also reduces the awful one button spam - very efficient and elegant solution imo. They even kept the same amount of total keybinds but merging Kamaitachi with Bunshin right away, rather than only getting to that 2 patches later. Having option between melee and gap-closer also enforces flexibility.
Did the job design team get a new member or something?

As for NIN's damage, it seems more like a side-grade for now, so might still need buffs later, but it should be back to an enjoyable state gameplay-wise at least.

The only other thing I would love to make it better, would be turning Raijus into ogcds, but that is obviously subjective and dependent on whether or not you miss NIN being more busy with weaves rather than gcds.

[Kolsykol]

I have such a hard time taking the people who complained about it before seriously.
If you died it wasn't because of Raiju...
And it requires melee regardless there is no difference in effect other than making for more weapn skills spam and now you don't have two charges per Raiton so you can't get one in then move out and just charge back in again with a single Raiton cast.
I've done all of the EW content countless times on NIN and I had absolutely zero issues it rly comes across as a totally imagined problem imho.

Ten Chi Jin is the actual problem in this regard, even moreso with random mechanics and people running into you and dropping AoE on your head.
Even just something like micro steps are infuriating with it, if I haven't played NIN in a while and go back I need to adjust and basically remember to always take my fingers completely off WASD and the mouse because if I don't even if I feel like I don't make a click it's like my character takes a micro step that can't even be seen and cancels it...
If people wanna complain about that stuff in regards to mobility, animation locks and being locked in place then Ten Chi Jin is the actual problem, Raiju wasn't an actual problem.

[Satarn]

Ten Chi Jin is the actual problem in this regard, even moreso with random mechanics and people running into you and dropping AoE on your head.

Everything is scripted in this game, so you can always plan how to use TCJ safely in advance, especially since its ranged. Talking about "random" mechanics honestly makes you sound kinda inexperienced, which would explain why you didn't see the problem with Raiju and don't understand why regular melee attack is better than a gap-closer in that regard. Even something like e6 normal would be an issue with the "garuda bacon strip" mechanic - many a DRG cried for that one due to jumps and even tanks had to hold their dashes. With six nearly unmovable Raijus it would've been a nightmare and that's just one mechanic from the top of my head. I remember there were several issues of staying at max-melee in the last tier as well.

I've done all of the EW content countless times on NIN and I had absolutely zero issues it rly comes across as a totally imagined problem imho.

Are you sure you have actually done it all on NIN? Because there's bind mechanics in the first trial(normal and EX) which align with the 60 second burst and make it impossible to use gap-closers.

[Kolsykol]

Everything is scripted in this game, so you can always plan how to use TCJ safely in advance, especially since its ranged. Talking about "random" mechanics honestly makes you sound kinda inexperienced, which would explain why you didn't see the problem with Raiju and don't understand why regular melee attack is better than a gap-closer in that regard. Even something like e6 normal would be an issue with the "garuda bacon strip" mechanic - many a DRG cried for that one due to jumps and even tanks had to hold their dashes. With six nearly unmovable Raijus it would've been a nightmare and that's just one mechanic from the top of my head. I remember there were several issues of staying at max-melee in the last tier as well.



Are you sure you have actually done it all on NIN? Because there's bind mechanics in the first trial(normal and EX) which align with the 60 second burst and make it impossible to use gap-closers.

Yes I've done it and no I had no issues with it and yes I do the 60 sec burst windows just fine.
Garuda wouldn't be a problem your character doesn't charge forward all the way you can still hit them on the outer edge of their hitbox.
You'd have to have some weird Tank shenanigans going on where the Tank insisted on pulling Garuda in some really weird spot for it to be a problem.
I am fairly sure I got it in roulettes before on NIN but I am not 110% sure.
But I do know for a fact that I had no issues with it in EW first EX trial included.

And yes I am aware that the game has scripted boss fights but that doesn't mean that there is no randomness involved and that other players have no effect on you.
If I activate Ten Chi Jin and someone decided to run at me and drop AoE under me please explain to me what I am supposed to do about that?
If you think that makes me sound inexperienced when I call it '' random '' then you're being incredibly pedantic.
There's a lot of situations where you have to move either close to or after Ten Chi Jin, I don't think NIN should be punished that super hard for it.

I don't think that regular melee attacks so to speak are inherently better than ones with gap-closers it's a matter of context, however I do think that it worked really well as a re-engage on NIN and made for a very fluid feeling in and out that actually lined up.
Before you could use a Raiju charge, go out and then charge back in again now you can't and have to rely on Shukuchi which is pretty clunky to use imo.
There's really not much of a difference now except that it makes for more 1 2 3 spam and a more clunky re-engage.

Yes Raiju is a 1 spam.
But it's still different than your 1 2 3 weapon skills and a change in pace and variety.
I wouldn't have a problem with this either if they kept it as 2 stacks of Raiju, my primary issue is that it's 1 stack ( and also weapon skills still break it ).

Not really sure if you actually think that Ten Chi Jin is well designed either or if you're only defending it for the sake of disagreeing with me.
It becomes especially silly to me when you take such issue with Raiju.

[Ash_]

It feels like this was a rushed fixed, and a more long term solution may happen in 6.1. The situation is all a bit weird to do a mini overhaul so soon on the newest introduced skills.

Potentially now though you could delete one raiju or the other, making room for the return of either assassinate or shadow fang. I'd keep the gap closer version, ditch fleeting.

[SamSmoot]

Do you know for sure they go away after using it now? Have you used it yet? Trying t figure this out

I tested it. Raiju ready goes away with any weaponskill or a Raiju.

[SamSmoot]

Love the bunshin change but the raiju change almost feels worst to me. It does solve the attacking while binding and max melee issues but I liked the animation of them back to back. My main issue was it breaking from weapon skills which many felt would also solve that issue and keep the cool animations but now that you dont have 2 to do forked then fleeting it feels less cool to me and underwhelming after doing it on a target dummy, and now I have a extra button to use for only said issue, and it still breaks on another weap skill use but its only one GCD now lost instead.....I dont know, I'll take it to an instance and see how it feels on a boss later.

You have to back off, so you cast Raitons. When it's safe to move back in, you save time by using Forked Raiju to close the gap.
Personally,I'll be using Fleeting 90% of the time, and a shifted Raiju key for Forked when I need the occasional gap closer.
Unfortunately, we lost one of two 400 potency Raijus after each Raiton, and the increase to 560p doesn't fully compensate for that loss.

[Satarn]

Garuda wouldn't be a problem your character doesn't charge forward all the way you can still hit them on the outer edge of their hitbox.

Edge of the hitbox is often still way too close. If you use Forked Raiju at max melee, it will move you and when you need to stay at max melee to live or not kill other members of your party (which is a case in numerous savage mechanics) then you won't be able to use it - now you can just use Fleeting instead. I can also tell you - you did not gap close and live on Garuda. "Edge of the hitbox" here is still very much in the death zone and I well remember both dying there on GNB gap closer and hearing DRGs bemoan this mechanic, esp with bad pf strats forcing melees on Garuda party in savage.

I don't think that regular melee attacks so to speak are inherently better than ones with gap-closers it's a matter of context, however I do think that it worked really well as a re-engage on NIN and made for a very fluid feeling in and out that actually lined up.

Of course they're not inherently better without context - which is why I said "in this regard". When you need to move, Forked will indeed be better, but that's the thing - you can still gap close with Forked, you just get a choice now instead of multiple back-to-back gap closers being forced on you.

Yes Raiju is a 1 spam. But it's still different than your 1 2 3 weapon skills and a change in pace and variety. I wouldn't have a problem with this either if they kept it as 2 stacks of Raiju, my primary issue is that it's 1 stack (and also weapon skills still break it ).

Matter of taste I suppose. I highly prefer to mix those 1234s with a couple 5s instead of just mashing 5 continuously. I find that to be more varied of the two. Also weaponskills breaking it is a non-issue now, because you can just use Fleeting same as a melee skill. It even eats a Bunshin stack.

Not really sure if you actually think that Ten Chi Jin is well designed either or if you're only defending it for the sake of disagreeing with me.

I don't see TCJ as an issue as much as a job mechanic to work around. The root is something I have to keep in mind, but the range makes the "temporary turret mode" useful in many situations as well. While it limits your movement, you can choose the spot you execute it at for yourself and it also doesn't take as long as 6 nearly back-to-back gap closers so it's far more flexible, it just requires a plan.

I can see how it may be frustrating in the chaos of Duty Finder, but I simply tend to not mind dps loses in casual content as I might as well lose far more dps due to getting deleted by a stray TB or any other reason. In EX/Savage/Ultimate, people shouldn't usually "randomly" run into you with a splash AoE, even in PF, making it a non-issue.

The only thing about TCJ is that they could maybe add a 0.5-1sec delay before it can be broken accidentally, because sometimes latency may cause the game to occasionally register you as still moving if you stopped right before executing the skill.

[Fourbestintoner]

All they had to do was not make them you leave max melee, now they ruined everything.