New Summoner looks really nice, but...

[MercuryD]

New SMN is an entirely new job. It's barebones as hell and that's by design. 6.0 appears more fluid than 5.x (as everyone who attended media tour to try the job have said) and anyone that regularly plays SMN now will know that. In current SMN our rotation IS rigid, the variations you have are "do I use EA to move or do I use R4 to move?" which really isn't a variation. You're still building R4 stacks, blowing DWT as soon as possible, demibahamut + 3x ruin3 and 4x ruin4 before you FBT and 121212121212 until you're back to DWT. Sure, you have dots but those barely matter since you only hard cast them once a cycle unless you screw up.

New SMN is still going to follow a similar pattern: Demi - Primals - Demi. The difference really is in the choice of which primal and in which order, or if it'd be better to skip a primal if the phase doesn't work.

Basically, enjoy the job as it will be or don't but don't pretend that either one is flawless.

[Rolder50]

What false premises? Current summoner is incredibly clunky. There’s a lot of buttons that’s you barely use. Most of the mechanics don’t even interact with one another. It’s not even that complex.

I find this point here to be a little ironic when new SMN has even less interactions between abilities. It can be largely boiled down to “Do Summon, mash 1 and 2 until empty, repeat” The summons don’t interact at all other then the fact you need to do them to get the Demi summons.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

This is one of the few times I disagree with Larry.

My problem with his logic is he really not counting egi assaults, fester, ed, and ruin 4s with ruin 3 in 5.0 smn filler phrases.

Ultimately what 6.0 filler phrase will be like is gem shine or brilliance spam, astral flow and your 3 summon buttons. You literally traded one spam for another.

And at least with current summoner, you can weave a few more oGCDS in

His logic is mostly sound since he mostly talks about buttons you press more than 5 times in a min. Most of the time you only press egi assaults 4 pre min, you only press r4 to avoid over capping but most of your r4 uses are in Bahamut, fester I believe is maybe 2 per min and the other two is saved in your demi summons/trances. You see gem shine and brilliance as the same as ruin 3 but they really not, at least I dont see them the same. Depending on the primal you have they are slightly different from each other and completely different from r3. But hey if you don't want to look at it that way or just cant that fine. You have the right to disagree with me or larry.

This is mostly to every doomsayers on this thread and to the balance discord but you don't have to like new smn but the way I see it complaining about it anywhere isn't really going to make much of a difference other than just venting into the void. The devs have made their decision and 6.0 smn is the smn we getting, like it or not. As it was said devs didn't have much choice in the matter either bc the job was on a breaking point so this rework was coming no matter what. Give it a try before judging the job is you dont trust in those who played it before us, and if you end up hating it or find it boring there are so many other jobs to pick from in this game. I know I have two backup jobs just in case I don't like the new smn and I think everyone should do the same tbh.

[rewd]

It's barebones as hell and that's by design.

And people are allowed to criticize this design choice.

he difference really is in the choice of which primal and in which order

Where there is a succession of choices, there is also an optimal way to take them. Especially with a rigid encounter design. The variety is a facade, but it looks like it's effective.

Basically, enjoy the job as it will be or don't but don't pretend that either one is flawless

Please take time to read or re-read posts in this thread with some attention and you will notice that no one was/is against a rework.

[MercuryD]

Where there is a succession of choices, there is also an optimal way to take them. Especially with a rigid encounter design. The variety is a facade, but it looks like it's effective.

Yes, generally, you will want to do a certain order if mobility/encounter permits but since the 13th the Balance has been theorycrafting this left, right and center and the only consensus is that it will depend on the individual fight. You may have time to sit there for a few 3s casts under fire or you may need to immediately Swift cast slipstream for Garuda's mobility. Either way, I'm sure it's still going to be just as fun and engaging as it is now and I look forward to early access.

[Rolder50]

Most of the time you only press egi assaults 4 pre min, you only press r4 to avoid over capping but most of your r4 uses are in Bahamut,.

This part right here is why I heavily disagree with his “5 casts per minute” threshold. It feels tailor picked to make old SMN look bad.

[MercuryD]

This part right here is why I heavily disagree with his “5 casts per minute” threshold. It feels tailor picked to make old SMN look bad.

In the video he specifically said separate buttons. You press each assault button twice per minute. You can't get more than that.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

This part right here is why I heavily disagree with his “5 casts per minute” threshold. It feels tailor picked to make old SMN look bad.

He not trying to make old smn look bad. That's not the point of his video. His point was to get across that the new smn doesn't feel dead brain or that you pressing the same button over and over. If you and other see it like that then Im sorry for you bc you cant look past this view you have put on the new smn in. Let's just wait and see how it feels before we pass judgment.

[Sequora]

And people are allowed to criticize this design choice.



Where there is a succession of choices, there is also an optimal way to take them. Especially with a rigid encounter design. The variety is a facade, but it looks like it's effective.


Please take time to read or re-read posts in this thread with some attention and you will notice that no one was/is against a rework.

There’s no facade. There will be encounters where it will be primal to do titan ifrit Garuda and you might have to change the order.

Current summoner is a really simple priority system.

I cannot wait to not have to track dot timers.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

There’s no facade. There will be encounters where it will be primal to do titan ifrit Garuda and you might have to change the order.

Current summoner is a really simple priority system.

I cannot wait to not have to track dot timers.

What I love is some of these ppl who criticize the new smn act like today smn is so deep and complex when it can be boiled down to a simple priority system, dotting with tri-d resets or hardcasting and know when you use certain things to avoid ghosting. Avoiding ghosting doesn't make the job complex it's the result of a broken pet system that will never be fixed. If you really want a complex caster job in hard content play BLM. It has more going on with it even than todays smn. I get it thought ppl scared since their job is being changed there a chance they may not like it. I have been an smn main since SB and I love the job with all my heart, I even was worried about the rework leading up to the last LL but afterwards I sigh in relief bc I thought what they show was amazing. The media tour has only made me want to play it even more after hearing larry take on it. Even ppl like mr happy who never played smn wants to play this smn. I think it will be just fine. I just don't understand judging or criticizing a job when they haven't even played it yet. :-/