Thread: Astrologian changes 6.0

Originally Posted by Payadopa

What I honestly don't get about such statements is that we think of a scenario where nobody screws up. I'm raiding myself and people do screw up or the enemy gets a lucky hit in so it's nice to have it.

In which case RNG decides you get useless Lords for the next 5 minutes and you don't have your Lady to cover the screw up. You can't adjust to that with Minor Arcana, rng said no. You just have to throw Lord at the boss, which does nothing to help the situation. How do you not get that?

Certain posters here are so focused on being anti-min maxer and focusing on dps that they can't see bad design right in front of their face. I've stated myself that I'd be happier if Minor Arcana did no dps at all. For example if Lady was the aoe heal and Lord was a single target heal that could also remove weakness, you could at least adapt by throwing it where it would be of the most use. Nice tool for prog.

But the current Minor Arcana is plain unreliable. But I guess if that lets you continue your agenda against raiders, you don't really care how bad the class feels to play.

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

In which case RNG decides you get useless Lords for the next 5 minutes and you don't have your Lady to cover the screw up. You can't adjust to that with Minor Arcana, rng said no. You just have to throw Lord at the boss, which does nothing to help the situation. How do you not get that?

Certain posters here are so focused on being anti-min maxer and focusing on dps that they can't see bad design right in front of their face. I've stated myself that I'd be happier if Minor Arcana did no dps at all. For example if Lady was the aoe heal and Lord was a single target heal that could also remove weakness, you could at least adapt by throwing it where it would be of the most use. Nice tool for prog.

But the current Minor Arcana is plain unreliable. But I guess if that lets you continue your agenda against raiders, you don't really care how bad the class feels to play.

I was saying Lord should be an AoE heal with Shield and Lady should be an AoE heal with Regen. Still unpredictable, but it might save a Collective or Opposition use.

And, seriously, I don't understand what these people are so angry with raiders. Raiders are generally the ones the developers balance things around since they are the ones who actually understand the game, mainly because they have to. Those who are so anti-min max can't articulate why something is good or bad, they can only break it down to, "Don't change it because I like it."

Guess what? I want Astrodyne and Minor Arcana changed because I don't like it. But, I know why I don't like it: it's a loss of consistency in a game where things are predictable. It's not about gambling, and those who think AST was a gambler doesn't understand a thing about how it has always been played.

I like it precisely because of the rng. I like rng. I like the unpredictable nature of the ability because it keeps things interesting and forces me to adapt.

Min makers are why our cards were homogenized and will bring even more blandness to the healers. Please stop. If you don’t like rng go to another class that doesn’t use it

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

In which case RNG decides you get useless Lords for the next 5 minutes and you don't have your Lady to cover the screw up. You can't adjust to that with Minor Arcana, rng said no. You just have to throw Lord at the boss, which does nothing to help the situation. How do you not get that?

Certain posters here are so focused on being anti-min maxer and focusing on dps that they can't see bad design right in front of their face. I've stated myself that I'd be happier if Minor Arcana did no dps at all. For example if Lady was the aoe heal and Lord was a single target heal that could also remove weakness, you could at least adapt by throwing it where it would be of the most use. Nice tool for prog.

But the current Minor Arcana is plain unreliable. But I guess if that lets you continue your agenda against raiders, you don't really care how bad the class feels to play.

What certain posters here don't get is that antagonizing people only has the consequence of embarassing yourself and weakining your arguments (which could be weak to begin with). Starting your posts with a "akshually if you have this opinion you surely don't understand the basics of the blablabla" or acting like "agenda against raiders" is a real thing in this thread (seriously, stop grasping at straws), is silly and sad to see.

Also, please, tell me if I got this right. Some people don't like the current system because Lady is a RNG heal and those are unreliable and because Lord is always better, and your suggestion to fix this is to:

- Make Lord a RNG heal, so that instead of having one unreliable tool, we get two
- Make Lord the better card because healers are not missing AoE heals and being able to remove weakness is a very, very powerful buff both in prog and non-prog content (and you are able to hold a potential Lord for the rest of the fight because Lady sucks)
- Make this a completely dead and irrelevant mechanic outside of prog
- Make AST even more powerful and WHM, its direct competitor, even less appealing because just the chance to be able to get a Lord and dispel the weakness debuff, on top of AST being in general just better than WHM, would be enough to strongly prefer one healer over the other

and you are accusing others of being unable to see bad design right in front of their face?

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I'm not a developer, we're just exploring opinions here.

Indeed, which is why I'd rather we all think twice and avoid personal attacks, which just make the discussion pretty obnoxious overall. Moving on:

- Two heals (or 3, or 4, or...) are still unreliable because they are RNG and mess up with your healing plan (which every good healers has). This is actually something I agree with. ST and AoE heals might be more manageable RNG, but still rather superfluous.

-I'd rather it was dead outside of prog than frustrating on farm runs where you play perfectly and get rng screwed out of 1000 potency over the fight.

You see, this is the whole point of the discussion, really. I, on the other hand, love the thought of it. Not only in farm parties, but dungeons, savage progs, alliance raids...
I prefer the "different strokes for different folks" approach, rather than "I prefer this way and you are objectively wrong if you think otherwise" approach.

I wouldn't mind making Lady more appealing because an AoE heal on a healer that isn't really lacking in that department is not that great, but God, I would be lying if I said Astrodyne and Minor Arcana didn't make me feel excited to play AST again.

Originally Posted by rewd

This is the second time in a row that you treat your interlocutor as an idiot that has no idea how healing and the game work, while you act like you are aware of the secrets of the universe. I know it's an alluring option when you have weak arguments, but it's also very obnoxious.

That being said, no. AST needs to do three things: damage, healing and party buffs. None of this is - and I'm quoting you - entirely RNG dependent. Not even close. Now that we - hopefully - made this clear and got rid of hyperboles, we can move on.

To address your question from your previous comment: why would anyone play AST over WHM? Because they like AST more. And because, unless balance is very off (and in this case, they will fix it), AST's basic damage spells, card and divination will, more or less, match WHM's personal damage. Astrodyne and Lord would very likely make AST deal more damage than a WHM if you have perfect RNG, but guess what: it's RNG. It's inconsistent. You can't replicate it realiably. It doesn't matter.


No, the job is not objectively flawed. Your lack of awareness is also so astonishing.
Let me get this straight: some people enjoy the AST changes, some don't. These AST changes make the job more different compared to the rest of the healers. You don't like the job and call it objectively flawed.
Your solution: scrap what makes AST different and make it similar to the rest, so one portion of the playerbase (=me) can be happy. So everyone that wants AST to change can play AST or - like you said - SGE and WHM. Everyone that wants to play EW's AST in its current form can instead play... Ehm... What can they play?
Sounds very healthy and not egoistic at all to me.

I'm sorry. Did I hurt your feelings? Your reasonings for wanting to keep AST the way they are a literally "because people like it", which is not even an argument. Some people like eating crap but that doesn't make it good.

You've failed to even address my argument, which is the current card system/astrodyne has about a 50% chance to punish players just from RNG. This is not something the player can improve upon and see results of their hard work. RNG for the sake of RNG in this game is a bad thing when it results in loss of damage consistently. People don't like that, and it will cause them to move to other classes.

The whole, if you don't like it, don't play it and just shut up argument is so condescending and dismissive. People ask for changes because they care about their main job. If the changes were for the benefit of all players, there's no reason to silence those players.

I'll say it again, the card system is flawed but I'm thinking there will be some adjustments that help us manipulate the RNG.