New class idea!

[Seraphor]

Maybe, but demanding "20 skills in a spreadsheet or don't don't bother" is a but much...

While some job ideas are rather bare bones, people should feel welcome to bring less than a fully concepted out kit to us.

That's the whole reason we have Bard and Machinist though. Archer and 'Gunner' are not enough of an identity on their own to flesh out an entire job. This isn't a single player JRPG where you form a party of separate components, you have one character, one job, to use to tick all the boxes of a complete gameplay experience. This is why WHM does more than just cast Curaga and Holy, and while BLM does more than a single nuke spell in six different elemental alignments.

There's a difference between coming up with a partially formed idea, and coming up with an idea for a partially formed job. There's coming up with a new job identity that you haven't completely thought out, and then there's recycling a small part of an existing job that we already know won't be enough to make up a full job on it's own.

While this topic might not be that, 'Gunner' certainly is.

[ItMe]

There's a difference between coming up with a partially formed idea, and coming up with an idea for a partially formed job. There's coming up with a new job identity that you haven't completely thought out, and then there's recycling a small part of an existing job that we already know won't be enough to make up a full job on it's own.

While this topic might not be that, 'Gunner' certainly is.

I agree.

Though

I wanna see a spread sheet, if you can’t make it work with at least 20 skills, it’s too shallow of a concept.

is a bit extreme an ask.

Don't get me wrong, the more people flesh out their ideas before making a thread for it the better. But less than a spreadsheet of 20+ skills is OK too.


Especially since a lot of the existing jobs concepts can be described in just a few sentences.
For example:
"NIN has buttons for some hand symbols and you mix and match Naruto style to make different Ninja moves. It can also apply a big debuff which is when they dump their damage and burst assassinate someone down."

[Archwizard]

I'll agree that "just putting out a sentence about a job and asking 'what do you think'" is too broad and minimalistic to really give an impression on why anyone would support it.
Threads that open in such manner are purely focused on the job's aesthetic, rather than on the gameplay mechanics that make it distinctive from playing other jobs.

Because at the end of the day, this is a game. If you want a job that plays just like another one but just looks different, you're just as well off looking on youtube for some "cosmetic updates" for spells. And if you "don't care how" it plays and just want to see it implemented, you don't get to be disappointed when it's implemented in a manner that wasn't anything like you were expecting.

For instance: the Chemist crowd of previous expansions. "How about a job that mixes potions and throws them to players? Non-magic healers rise up!!!"
With nothing concrete to sell their concept, there was no point trying to argue for or against the job. They wanted a potion healer, they didn't care if it would actually be fun to play, much less if it would be mechanically plausible to implement. For all they gave, it could have been an exact clone of NIN, but with healing potencies.
Likewise, the Time Mage Healer crowd -- they'd name a few abilities from FF games, but ignore that some of those share names or high resemblances with AST skills (especially now that it's a Regen-focused healer with additional "delayed trigger healing" effects), or would otherwise be extremely OP in the hands of any job in their "most faithful" adaptations (such as Haste, Reflect, or any %-health skills).

So while I disagree about needing a spreadsheet written out for every half-formed job concept because, well, that's a lot of work for something that might never be implemented... having even a basic idea of a unique gameplay loop, including a few key sample skills, can go a long way to drawing any popular support for a job.

[ZaqueXIII]

Tbh all you really need for a job concept should be;role, gimmick and weapons. Since armor and basic kit is pretty much the same throughout the game. "Is it a melee job?" It'll probably have; a combo, an aoe combo, some ranged ability for downtime, a personal buff, some small defensive buff and all that stuff combined is half the kit of just core gameplay not to mention getting all the cross role skills so already this non-descript job has a lot of actions, probably around 15-20, just in a kit where its only difference to another job is animations.