Thoughts of Samurai Changes

[Shurrikhan]

right now the sam feel nice, but i have a few concern for make it great...

sadly... we need to move from the group for use efficiently tenka goken....

When "great" just really means "obliges less gameplay." /sigh

The only change I want to Tenka and Guren is the same change I want for all targeted AoEs -- to make it follow character facing instead of requiring a target.

[silentwindfr]

When "great" just really means "obliges less gameplay." /sigh

The only change I want to Tenka and Guren is the same change I want for all targeted AoEs -- to make it follow character facing instead of requiring a target.

it's not less gameplay, it's make it more fluid... it's different. with fugo you can go in middle of the melee and the time you spend to replace yourself for get an efficient tenka goken or simply for target the right target is painfull.
plus one important point to note a lot of large enemy make tenka goken simply miss the pack... since it's range is 8 yalm when the combo have a 5 yalms, but since it's circle it's actually covering 10 yalms.
for make simple even if your combo can hit everyone it's not said that tenka goken will do the same.

it's tedious and often handicap the sam when other dps don't have this part to move, don't forget that tenka goken have a charging time where we don't move... making use loose double time, since we need to move in position, then wait that tenka goken charge up and goes. when we had fuka it wasn't a trouble since we was already placing ourself for fuka... but with fugo we don't need to place ourself... making all the situation around tenka and guren uselessly more complicate than needed.

and if you did notice i have said that it's probably something that will not come out before next expac... and honestly right now at this time, what can they add to the samurai?
only a few skill need change or to be look at:
- higanbana, because it don't use tsubame and honestly even if in terms of dps it's welcome i still fail to see it point, since samurai try to slash thing, not make them bleed. don't get me wrong i understand that it did bring diversity to the cycle, but maybe they need to look into it for make it more engaging more than force us to use 3 gcd for add diversity.
- tenka goken (like guren),i have already explained my thought about it
- mokuso, i feel this skill need a bit of flavor...often when the fight allows us to use it we barely need it... i dunno what to do with it for make it more relevant... because right now it feel like a niche skill.

right now for 2 expac the sam did barely change, most of the change was quality of life more than adding true new mechanic that add to the jobs, some will say that tsubame did add stuff or shoha but did the jobs really did change with this two thing? it's only did make the sam feel more complete....
the question is what can they add with the next one... we already have the job with the most button used. and the one i did talk about are usefull (exept mokuso) then scrap them is kinda hard. do we will get one more expac of minimal change? more than less gameplay, i'm more worried to get more of the same gameplay.

but honestly the sam is good, i have a blast with it. i'm even surprise that ogi is something that don't replace the iaijutsu... and the sam is not the only jobs like this, the rdm have the same trouble... and the most the fun it's the two jobs added together that have the same trouble.
i'm for more gameplay, more tool to be used... but if they want to add more tool, they need to make our tool more fluid and smooth. mekyo and tsubame with two charge are a good way to do it. change tenka goken and guren another one. maybe like you said to remove the need of target someone, yes. we are here for talk and share our mind about it. i don't say my is more relevant or more just than your, just give my piece of mind. whatever they decide if it work i'm for it.

[Shurrikhan]

it's not less gameplay, it's make it more fluid... it's different.

It's literally less. You've gone from obliged movement to... nothing.

By your logic, positionals have no gameplay element.

Again, I'm all for all targeted AoEs being changed to instead use the character's or camera's facing, since that'd be less finicky and more intuitive, but that does not necessitate that every AoE in the game is turned into a radial AoE. I prefer the obliged movement brought by having a mix of AoEs.

[silentwindfr]

It's literally less. You've gone from obliged movement to... nothing.

By your logic, positionals have no gameplay element.

Again, I'm all for all targeted AoEs being changed to instead use the character's or camera's facing, since that'd be less finicky and more intuitive, but that does not necessitate that every AoE in the game is turned into a radial AoE. I prefer the obliged movement brought by having a mix of AoEs.

don't start me on positional, i have a quite hard take on it. but i see what what you means. however what i means is i wish they add more to the sam and for this they will need to change stuff for get more room. i don't want to see a third expac with minimal change. i want to have the feeling that with expansion our character become stronger... because let's face it. with endwalker, outside namikiri.... our cycle didn't change. we simply did get more room for mess up or have different speed attack... what is nice, but not game changer. even namikiri is simply an overpowered iaijutsu that don't use our iaijutsu sen system.

another point i want to clarify... what you call more gameplay i call it tedious, because you either go full radial or full cone, here we get 4 radial (3 combo skill and mumyo shoha) and 3 cone attack (guren, tenka and namikiri) but 2 of this skill have long cd, and namikiri is more a solo target skill with his -75% potency after the first target. (that is 300 potency in aoe after all).... but i digress, your main rotation will be 3 radial, then position yourself (while the tank move enemy because he avoid aoe) unleash tenka, repeat 3 time before add a mumyo.

and in fight where tank move a lot, the number of time where tenka can hit more than 3 target (especially if a few big target in inside the pack) is not that often. and we don't talk if the target die while your charge tenka and stuff like this.

and don' think i want less gameplay i want more tool and diversity... and for this they need to smooth this part for get us new toy to play with.

because right now, sam is one of the jobs with the most button to use... and if they want to add anything else... they either take some our skill or smooth part for make it more fluid...

[Shurrikhan]

what you call more gameplay i call it tedious

Then I have to wonder how narrow a range of change would be acceptable to you as an addition to SAM...

and we don't talk if the target die while your charge tenka and stuff like this.

I'm sorry, but that's straight up a matter of you lacking practice with conal AoEs and casts, then. You should never be targeting an enemy that will die before you can complete the cast. That's the same logic as with literally any other cast. And you absolutely can preposition Tenka sufficiently to deal with ADHD tanks.

because right now, sam is one of the jobs with the most button to use... and if they want to add anything else... they either take some our skill or smooth part for make it more fluid...

There is no absolute need to add buttons to add interactions. Nor would the reduction to gameplay you're asking for reduce SAM's button count.

[BrokentoothMarch]

Then I have to wonder how narrow a range of change would be acceptable to you as an addition to SAM...


I'm sorry, but that's straight up a matter of you lacking practice with conal AoEs and casts, then. You should never be targeting an enemy that will die before you can complete the cast. That's the same logic as with literally any other cast. And you absolutely can preposition Tenka sufficiently to deal with ADHD tanks.


There is no absolute need to add buttons to add interactions. Nor would the reduction to gameplay you're asking for reduce SAM's button count.

While I have agreed with most of what you say, to pretend that positionals are some sort of deep mechanic that had complexity is like trying to tell me that putting orange caps on the orange bottles and blue caps on the blue ones is similarly complex and stimulating. Positionals are, by their nature, a veiled attempt at difficulty and more a "Are you paying attnetion?" check. This is not difficult. This is very inherently a chore and to call it gameplay would be akin to calling moving to the left the same. Technically, you'd be correct, but let's be real.

This is mostly the only bit that miffed me considering that, if this notion is rejected, suddenly someone has a narrow view of what could be added to SAM, which is honestly pretty... well, narrow-minded.

[Shurrikhan]

This is very inherently a chore and to call it gameplay would be akin to calling moving to the left the same. Technically, you'd be correct, but let's be real.

This is mostly the only bit that miffed me considering that, if this notion is rejected, suddenly someone has a narrow view of what could be added to SAM, which is honestly pretty... well, narrow-minded.

Then what of Savage raiding, 90+% of which is "move to X at time Y"? Mere chore? Just get rid of it all those mechanics, too? If preemptive movement is so "tedious" as to be considered gameplay only by the thinnest technicality... what is there to do among the endgame?

But let's say we follow your line of reasoning and reject any and all mechanics that required paired consideration without requiring additional button counts. No more cast times. No more positionals. Done. Is that not a narrower span of gameplay than before such was excluded?

If a job had several or so paths of development available to it previously, but you sought to constrain that to just a few because the remainder didn't meet your personal definition of "worthwhile gameplay", have you not set a narrower view of what could be added to SAM?