Thoughts of Samurai Changes

[Kazimere]

Actually, that highlights that, unless they changed it since the media demo, the Yaten + Enpi combo actually got pretty considerably buffed. Most of our abilities had a reduction of ~20% potency (ex. Gekko 480 -> 370, Yakikaze 360 -> 280, Midare 800 -> 660), while the Enpi combo potency didn't change. It's still 100 + 300 + 100, costing 10 Kenki. That means it got, in effect, a ~25% buff relative to most of our other abilities.

Now, our "standard" 9-GCD cycle, generating all 3 Sen and using Midare, currently does a total of 3360 potency, plus generates 60 Kenki. Assuming 20 of that is used on Kaiten for Midare, that's 3760 potency and +40 Kenki net. Kenki's "spammable" spender is Shinten, currently at 320 potency for 25 Kenki, or 12.8 potency per Kenki, which means 40 Kenki is equivalent to 512 potency. That's a net of 4272 potency, or 474.7 potency per GCD. The Enpi combo currently does 500 potency and costs 10 Kenki (though it could instead do 400 and cost no Kenki if you skip Gyoten and just run back in, resulting in slightly better efficiency). The 10 Kenki cost is equivalent to 128 potency lost from not being able to use it on Shinten, so the net for that GCD is 372, or 400 flat if you skip Gyoten and simply run back in during the Enpi GCD. In either case, a net loss.

However, with the reduced potency, we do only 2960 potency with our Sen combo, including Kaiten on Midare. Shinten is down to 270 potency, meaning each Kenki is worth 10.8 potency, so the 40 Kenki surplus is now only worth 432 potency. Total is 3392, or 376.9 potency per GCD (reminder that potencies are going down, but not really actual damage, because of the change to the damage formula in EW). That means that the Enpi combo with Gyoten is only barely a DPS loss, and without it is actually a DPS gain (~23 potency per GCD).

And that's a bit problematic. Because it means that optimal DPS for Samurai, outside of the raid buff window, is actually probably going to be spamming the Enpi combo (and running back in after each, so it's null cost on Kenki). I really hope they notice that and drop the potency of the Enpi combo to compensate.

Yeah, I read that as well. If that is the case, I assume that they will hit Enpi with a nerf. I'd like to see it get hit so hard that it is taken out of the rotation as a filler entirely. Not a fan of using my movement utility for anything but movement. Sam is lucky on that front, since it's tied to our gauge and is weak enough compared to the others that it doesn't get used for anything but movement.

[Acece]

Yeah, I read that as well. If that is the case, I assume that they will hit Enpi with a nerf. I'd like to see it get hit so hard that it is taken out of the rotation as a filler entirely. Not a fan of using my movement utility for anything but movement. Sam is lucky on that front, since it's tied to our gauge and is weak enough compared to the others that it doesn't get used for anything but movement.

I disagree, using enpi for a filler is great when sam needs to disengage from the boss without losing uptime. It's also not breaking combos in endwalker so its even better, it also looks sick as hell when you time it properly.

[Kaedys]

I disagree, using enpi for a filler is great when sam needs to disengage from the boss without losing uptime. It's also not breaking combos in endwalker so its even better, it also looks sick as hell when you time it properly.

Sure, it's a great mechanic for offsetting melee downtime. What I don't want to see is it being used in the normal rotation. And unless it gets nerfed, that's what's going to happen, because Yaten + Enhanced Enpi is higher DPS per GCD than the average in our 3x Sen -> Midare sequence.

AoE Yukikaze does higher potency than other 2, just FYI.
So if you've got both buffs already then you're gonna need to do the AoE Yukikaze anyway.
but personally, I would prefer more kenki generate than higher potency so we can use more kyuten.

I mean, it does 10 potency more, every other GCD. Is it worth using with current tuning? Sure, why not. The concern is more that there seems to be little reason for it to have been implemented in the first place. We basically never need more than 2 Sen in AoE anyway, since we want to use Tenka instead of Midare. So being able to generate the Setsu Sen in AoE is a bit...well, superfluous. It's a button just for the sake of having a button, it doesn't really enhance our AoE rotation in any meaningful way. It's a good example of SE implementing an ability not because the job has a meaningful rotational gap, but simply because they wanted to hit some arbitrary threshold of number of buttons, and had removed two others (the Third Eye combos).

[Acece]

Sure, it's a great mechanic for offsetting melee downtime. What I don't want to see is it being used in the normal rotation. And unless it gets nerfed, that's what's going to happen, because Yaten + Enhanced Enpi is higher DPS per GCD than the average in our 3x Sen -> Midare sequence.

enpi just needs to do more damage then hakaze and it should be good, I don't like using hakaze as a filler instead.

[Kaedys]

enpi just needs to do more damage then hakaze and it should be good, I don't like using hakaze has a filler instead.

Well, it's a bit more than that. The consideration, even without it breaking combos, is whether it's worth using for a relatively short run. If you only need to backstep for part of a GCD, if Enpi is too low, it can actually be a DPS gain to run out, not use Enpi (or Yaten to get the range in the first place, since it costs 10 Kenki), and simply run back in after the AoE. The threshold where it's better to wait rather than use Enpi depends on the potency of Yaten + Enpi versus the potency of the average GCD in the rotation. And that threshold is not necessarily just Hakaze. The average GCD does ~2.5 times as much potency as Hakaze does (specifically, average GCD in the Midare sequence is worth ~380 potency), even with the EW changes. If Yaten + Enpi did only ~150 potency, it'd be a DPS loss to use it even if you'd otherwise have wasted over half a GCD period before getting back into melee range.

However, the threshold is much lower in EW than it was in ShB, simply because Enpi no longer breaks combos, so it's purely a potency comparison now. Probably somewhere around 250-300 combined potency between the two would work fine. If it were 50 potency for both Yaten and Gyoten, and then 200 for Enhanced Enpi, it would be generally worth using in most need-to-get-out-of-melee situations, without being worth using rotationally.

[Kazimere]

I disagree, using enpi for a filler is great when sam needs to disengage from the boss without losing uptime. It's also not breaking combos in endwalker so its even better, it also looks sick as hell when you time it properly.

Yeah, I'm good with using it for what it's designed to be used as, which is just as you stated: great for when SAM NEEDS to disengage. That's not filler. What I don't want to see, is us using it to fill spaces to line up CDs when we a;ready have uptime. Disengaging and throwing a ranged as we run back in because it's the most damaging way to fill the gap in the rotation is just...

[Acece]

Yeah, I'm good with using it for what it's designed to be used as, which is just as you stated: great for when SAM NEEDS to disengage. That's not filler. What I don't want to see, is us using it to fill spaces to line up CDs when we a;ready have uptime. Disengaging and throwing a ranged as we run back in because it's the most damaging way to fill the gap in the rotation is just...

I just think it's the most interesting 1 gcd filler we have, that's why I like it. There's also the 2/3 gcd build if you dislike enpi that much.

[Kazimere]

I just think it's the most interesting 1 gcd filler we have, that's why I like it. There's also the 2/3 gcd build if you dislike enpi that much.

I won't argue that it's more interesting than a Haka/Yuki or another Getsu/Ka iteration. It definitely is. However, I'm opposed to using movement abilities outside of their intended purposes in general. Disengages most of all. If I had my way, no gap closer or disengage would have damage attached to it, and they wouldn't buff any ranged ability.

[Kaedys]

I won't argue that it's more interesting than a Haka/Yuki or another Getsu/Ka iteration. It definitely is. However, I'm opposed to using movement abilities outside of their intended purposes in general. Disengages most of all. If I had my way, no gap closer or disengage would have damage attached to it, and they wouldn't buff any ranged ability.

I honestly don't mind it buffing Enpi, tbh. I like that mechanism, because it allows you to intelligently use your disengage to mitigate what would otherwise just be dead rotational time from being out of melee range. It rewards you for playing intelligently. What I don't want is for Enpi to have a use case outside of "being in melee is currently bad for my health". Reaper has a similar mechanism with their teleport. Their ranged attack, Harpe, has a 1.3s cast normally, but is made into an instacast when they use their teleport. It still doesn't make it worth using in their normal single-target rotation, but if they need to leave melee range to dodge something, it gives them a sequence somewhat similar to Yaten -> Enpi -> Gyoten, by teleporting out, using Harpe, and then using Regress to port back to their starting point (presumably in melee range). I enjoy this type of setup on melee classes, because it doesn't feel quite as bad as simply slinging your low-damage ranged ability when you're forced out of melee range, and it specifically rewards you for intelligently using your mobility buttons in those situations.

Personally, I'd like it even better if Gyoten had both its damage and Kenki cost removed, and was turned into a charge-metered ability instead (with something like a 20s CD), so the entire sequence of Yaten -> Enpi -> Gyoten was Kenki neutral. Then tune the damage of Enpi so it's a definitive DPS loss during the normal rotation, but is worth using if you'd otherwise waste more than some fraction of a GCD (say a third to half of a GCD). That avoids it becoming rotational, or even really being used just to align GCDs. There should be some other melee GCD ability, unconnected to our combo sequence or Kenki gauge, that's close to but not quite DPS neutral (small potency loss versus the average GCD in the combo sequence, to avoid it being generally used, but so it's not really much of a loss to use it in place of the combo sequence for the purposes of GCD alignment), specifically for that purpose.