Thoughts of Samurai Changes

[Kahnom]

AoE Yukikaze does higher potency than other 2, just FYI.
So if you've got both buffs already then you're gonna need to do the AoE Yukikaze anyway.
but personally, I would prefer more kenki generate than higher potency so we can use more kyuten.

[Acece]

Yeah, I read that as well. If that is the case, I assume that they will hit Enpi with a nerf. I'd like to see it get hit so hard that it is taken out of the rotation as a filler entirely. Not a fan of using my movement utility for anything but movement. Sam is lucky on that front, since it's tied to our gauge and is weak enough compared to the others that it doesn't get used for anything but movement.

I disagree, using enpi for a filler is great when sam needs to disengage from the boss without losing uptime. It's also not breaking combos in endwalker so its even better, it also looks sick as hell when you time it properly.

[Gemina]

The thought process doesn't change with two different buttons.

It does when you change the effects on existing buttons. Now that I have more time, and can get into this a bit more; what I should have initially mentioned with SAM AoE and the QoL of it are the changes to AoE combo finishers granting our buffs instead of just extending them. A big problem I have with SAM AoE is I either have to resort to ST in order to put up my buffs if they are down, or burn up my Meikyo. Now I will be able to just go right into AoE, and that is what I meant when I said I got excited for the SAM QoL changes to AoE, and that it is very significant. I honestly don't know why you even made it about Hyosetsu. But I digress.

AoE Yuki serves absolutely no purpose. It would be one thing if any combination of Setsu and Getsu/ Ka would allow for AoE Higa, but they do not. Now, instead of 1,2,1,3, Tekka, repeat, it will be 1,2,1,4, Tekka, 1,3,1,4, Tekka, repeat.

The purpose of Hyosetsu is foregoing refreshing either of your buffs in favor of a slight pot increase. As you have pointed out, we currently go 1,2,1,3, Goken, repeat, in EW we will be alternating 2 and 3 after each Goken. It's not wildly different, but that's also not what I was getting wildly excited about. However, it is still more engaging than current SAM AoE. There are 3 GCDs and Goken before you have to alternate, so it is entirely possible to still use the wrong skill, and have one of your buffs drop off for the next Goken, which would be pretty bad if pushing DPS. I for one favor a slight combo tree opposed to streamlining skills, especially on melee DPS jobs.

It's AoE. It boggles my mind why people care so much about involved AoE rotations for dungeon trash.

Why does it boggle your mind that people don't want to faceplant from boredom burning down dungeon trash? There is also the factor that we spend A LOT of time in dungeons.

[Kaedys]

I disagree, using enpi for a filler is great when sam needs to disengage from the boss without losing uptime. It's also not breaking combos in endwalker so its even better, it also looks sick as hell when you time it properly.

Sure, it's a great mechanic for offsetting melee downtime. What I don't want to see is it being used in the normal rotation. And unless it gets nerfed, that's what's going to happen, because Yaten + Enhanced Enpi is higher DPS per GCD than the average in our 3x Sen -> Midare sequence.

AoE Yukikaze does higher potency than other 2, just FYI.
So if you've got both buffs already then you're gonna need to do the AoE Yukikaze anyway.
but personally, I would prefer more kenki generate than higher potency so we can use more kyuten.

I mean, it does 10 potency more, every other GCD. Is it worth using with current tuning? Sure, why not. The concern is more that there seems to be little reason for it to have been implemented in the first place. We basically never need more than 2 Sen in AoE anyway, since we want to use Tenka instead of Midare. So being able to generate the Setsu Sen in AoE is a bit...well, superfluous. It's a button just for the sake of having a button, it doesn't really enhance our AoE rotation in any meaningful way. It's a good example of SE implementing an ability not because the job has a meaningful rotational gap, but simply because they wanted to hit some arbitrary threshold of number of buttons, and had removed two others (the Third Eye combos).

[Gemina]

I... what? Samurai is is one of the most engaging aoe jobs in the game. And how can you say they went outside the box when all they did was add another aoe move that is exactly the same as the other 2 ring aor's in terms of how it impacts you mechanically, and then an aoe version of a skill that already exists?

Like I explained in my last post, Hyosetsu has a slight pot increase over Oka and Mangetsu, but it does not refresh your buffs.

As for the engaging AoE, even my lv60 DRG has better AoE than SAM, and DRG's only gets stronger through cap with some very impressive and rewarding skills, and it is going to get even better in EW. Can you say the same about SAM? Maybe you can, but I know I can't. There's a reason why I never take my SAM into dungeons beyond when I am leveling it. I'm definitely not saying it isn't good from a DPS standpoint. If both Iko and Guren are up, along with double Gokens going out, it can be satisfying going into Tasmanian Devil mode. It's just not very engaging in comparison to other jobs I've played.

When it comes to skills that have ST and AoE variants. It would actually be interesting to hear from the devs exactly how they make this determination.

[Acece]

Sure, it's a great mechanic for offsetting melee downtime. What I don't want to see is it being used in the normal rotation. And unless it gets nerfed, that's what's going to happen, because Yaten + Enhanced Enpi is higher DPS per GCD than the average in our 3x Sen -> Midare sequence.

enpi just needs to do more damage then hakaze and it should be good, I don't like using hakaze as a filler instead.

[Kaedys]

enpi just needs to do more damage then hakaze and it should be good, I don't like using hakaze has a filler instead.

Well, it's a bit more than that. The consideration, even without it breaking combos, is whether it's worth using for a relatively short run. If you only need to backstep for part of a GCD, if Enpi is too low, it can actually be a DPS gain to run out, not use Enpi (or Yaten to get the range in the first place, since it costs 10 Kenki), and simply run back in after the AoE. The threshold where it's better to wait rather than use Enpi depends on the potency of Yaten + Enpi versus the potency of the average GCD in the rotation. And that threshold is not necessarily just Hakaze. The average GCD does ~2.5 times as much potency as Hakaze does (specifically, average GCD in the Midare sequence is worth ~380 potency), even with the EW changes. If Yaten + Enpi did only ~150 potency, it'd be a DPS loss to use it even if you'd otherwise have wasted over half a GCD period before getting back into melee range.

However, the threshold is much lower in EW than it was in ShB, simply because Enpi no longer breaks combos, so it's purely a potency comparison now. Probably somewhere around 250-300 combined potency between the two would work fine. If it were 50 potency for both Yaten and Gyoten, and then 200 for Enhanced Enpi, it would be generally worth using in most need-to-get-out-of-melee situations, without being worth using rotationally.

[Kazimere]

I disagree, using enpi for a filler is great when sam needs to disengage from the boss without losing uptime. It's also not breaking combos in endwalker so its even better, it also looks sick as hell when you time it properly.

Yeah, I'm good with using it for what it's designed to be used as, which is just as you stated: great for when SAM NEEDS to disengage. That's not filler. What I don't want to see, is us using it to fill spaces to line up CDs when we a;ready have uptime. Disengaging and throwing a ranged as we run back in because it's the most damaging way to fill the gap in the rotation is just...

[Kazimere]

AoE Yukikaze does higher potency than other 2, just FYI.
So if you've got both buffs already then you're gonna need to do the AoE Yukikaze anyway.
but personally, I would prefer more kenki generate than higher potency so we can use more kyuten.

Yeah, I know. I still don't like it. I'd rather have your suggestion on more Kenki than just a bit more damage, but it'd have to be a bit for me to bother dealing with it on dungeon trash. Personally, I think they missed an opportunity for AoE Higa when they added it.

[Acece]

Yeah, I'm good with using it for what it's designed to be used as, which is just as you stated: great for when SAM NEEDS to disengage. That's not filler. What I don't want to see, is us using it to fill spaces to line up CDs when we a;ready have uptime. Disengaging and throwing a ranged as we run back in because it's the most damaging way to fill the gap in the rotation is just...

I just think it's the most interesting 1 gcd filler we have, that's why I like it. There's also the 2/3 gcd build if you dislike enpi that much.