4th Range DPS idea after endwalker

[Shurrikhan]

Most CC spells like Slow, Stop, Old, Disable, Banish and Mute would be kinda pointless to implement. Depending on what enemies they can affect, they would exclusively be either "completely overpowered, you would never take anything but an AST anywhere" or "completely useless, who even bothered programming these" with no in-between, which makes them more reasonable as BLU spells (where the point of the class is to pick the skills most useful for the situation, learning enemies' status resistances, etc).

Not necessarily. All you need is literally any of various ways to balance the effect on a given enemy such that its potency, or duration, is proportionately lower as the mob's stats (or, average throughput) increases (i.e., by affecting one of the mob's stats by an amount based upon your own stats).

Even if, say, (a spammable) Disable were to still reduce the target's damage by a percentage, it needn't be the same percentage on every mob. A single percentage regardless of target fits a CD, since you'd want to potentially bank it for the greatest total mitigation across an encounter but makes no sense for a spammable spell. In such a case, it would essentially work like a stackable shield, increasing the tank's eHP at cost to MP and slightly to GCD-efficiency relative to just healing the tank up after. That's nothing inherently overpowered except to the extent that any means of potentially double-shielding would be.

In this game, Stop is effectively just stun, but the same balancing logic applies there as it would any very strong Slow or Disable. You could have it work on bosses, even, but it'd be highly situational -- only briefly delaying their skill queues (likely to the frustration of those playing towards very specific uptime strats).

[Archwizard]

A single percentage regardless of target fits a CD, since you'd want to potentially bank it for the greatest total mitigation across an encounter but makes no sense for a spammable spell.

Sounds like you're suggesting Addle, Feint or Reprisal but linking it to the user's stats, knowing full-well that such mitigation skills are ineffective on high-end bosses since their major raid-wide attacks are usually untargetable.

In such a case, it would essentially work like a stackable shield, increasing the tank's eHP at cost to MP and slightly to GCD-efficiency relative to just healing the tank up after.

So you managed to take Disable, and logic it into a Barrier Heal?
In a time when people are arguing whether Lightspeed and Divination are close enough to Haste for AST to be considered a Time Mage, where people argue Gravity isn't really Gravity because it doesn't halve target HP, where people forget Aspected Benefic is functionally the same as Regen, you're arguing that Disable -- a target debuff that has more in common with Paralysis -- should be a stackable shield?

Also, just putting this out there, I have no idea what you're trying to argue for here. Is this just a hypothetical to be contrary to the conclusion I gave? An argument for Time Mage as a DPS with a barrier utility? An argument for Time Mage as a Barrier Healer, despite AST covering the "Time Mage as a healer" niche?

In this game, Stop is effectively just stun, but the same balancing logic applies there as it would any very strong Slow or Disable. You could have it work on bosses, even, but it'd be highly situational -- only briefly delaying their skill queues (likely to the frustration of those playing towards very specific uptime strats).

I feel you'd be better-served having Stop or Disable just be a reskin on Sleep or Repose for whoever is using it.

[Shurrikhan]

Sounds like you're suggesting Addle, Feint or Reprisal but linking it to the user's stats, knowing full-well that such mitigation skills are ineffective on high-end bosses since their major raid-wide attacks are usually untargetable.

Which is an issue only if (1) you consistently need its eHP (i.e., if this hypothetical Time Mage must fill the role of a barrier healer specifically, rather than milk all possibilities attached to a time-themed healer), and (2) don't freeze categorically inactive duration timers (essentially, anything but DoTs) when the boss jumps away.

If this were to be part of a Time Mage kit, you wouldn't just be spamming status effects, though. You'd likely be taking stuff like Time Dilation to emergency-save someone by delaying their would-be death by 2-3 seconds (depending on if oGCD or GCD) to drop heals on them, Time Compression to stack someone full of HoTs or an enemy full of DoTs and then surge those through for higher relative mobility if your DoTs are tied to instant casts at above your filler ppgcd, et cetera.

That's besides the point, though. I'm just pointing out that status effects can likewise scale.

So you managed to take Disable, and logic it into a Barrier Heal?

As a spammable spell, a damage reduction to an attacker is an eHP increase to its target. As that is on demand, yeah, that works a whole lot like a barrier in how it affects one's tank.
A: The boss deals 20% less damage, reducing what would have been 10k damage. Target takes 2k less damage.
B: Tank gets a 2k shield, and therefore takes 2k less damage.

Difference? That the 2k shield can't stack with a(nother) 2k shield, while the 2k mitigation can.

Is this just a hypothetical to be contrary to the conclusion I gave?

The rationale is right there: CC and damage-dealt-reduction don't inherently break when taken off the CD, so long as they scale appropriately.

There are no strings. There is no baggage. There is no grand design. I just don't think CC is inherently dead by design.

(If I had my druthers, I'd give this shit back to AST, despite going further with it. I felt that Diurnal vs. Noct should have instead been exactly that from the start -- ways of manipulating time. I don't think we need a separate Time Mage job. But that is neither here nor there. I just don't think status effects are any more necessarily broken than is, say, any damage buff or barrier.)

I feel you'd be better-served having Stop or Disable just be a reskin on Sleep or Repose for whoever is using it.

If I weren't to make it its own thing, why wouldn't I just call the thing that just prevents all actions and doesn't break from damage... a stun? It is, again, effectively just a stun, so long as it doesn't pause all buffs on the target (which seems unlikely to be designed in).

[LordMetal7]

Which is an issue only if (1) you consistently need its eHP (i.e., if this hypothetical Time Mage must fill the role of a barrier healer specifically, rather than milk all possibilities attached to a time-themed healer), and (2) don't freeze categorically inactive duration timers (essentially, anything but DoTs) when the boss jumps away.

If this were to be part of a Time Mage kit, you wouldn't just be spamming status effects, though. You'd likely be taking stuff like Time Dilation to emergency-save someone by delaying their would-be death by 2-3 seconds (depending on if oGCD or GCD) to drop heals on them, Time Compression to stack someone full of HoTs or an enemy full of DoTs and then surge those through for higher relative mobility if your DoTs are tied to instant casts at above your filler ppgcd, et cetera.

That's besides the point, though. I'm just pointing out that status effects can likewise scale.


As a spammable spell, a damage reduction to an attacker is an eHP increase to its target. As that is on demand, yeah, that works a whole lot like a barrier in how it affects one's tank.
A: The boss deals 20% less damage, reducing what would have been 10k damage. Target takes 2k less damage.
B: Tank gets a 2k shield, and therefore takes 2k less damage.

Difference? That the 2k shield can't stack with a(nother) 2k shield, while the 2k mitigation can.


The rationale is right there: CC and damage-dealt-reduction don't inherently break when taken off the CD, so long as they scale appropriately.

There are no strings. There is no baggage. There is no grand design. I just don't think CC is inherently dead by design.

(If I had my druthers, I'd give this shit back to AST, despite going further with it. I felt that Diurnal vs. Noct should have instead been exactly that from the start -- ways of manipulating time. I don't think we need a separate Time Mage job. But that is neither here nor there. I just don't think status effects are any more necessarily broken than is, say, any damage buff or barrier.)


If I weren't to make it its own thing, why wouldn't I just call the thing that just prevents all actions and doesn't break from damage... a stun? It is, again, effectively just a stun, so long as it doesn't pause all buffs on the target (which seems unlikely to be designed in).

I apologize but is all of this MCH Related? O.o

[Ayche]

A solid way to answer this question is to look at the most common Time Magic spells:

...

You have to remember, "Time Magic" would be more accurately called "Spacetime Magic".

Really the question is, what would a Time Mage be able to salvage if implemented as a DPS job? Despite what you might think being a natural union, there's not much precedent of DoT effects amongst Time Mages, much less DoT manipulation. All you got are Bleed and Extend, and those aren't even available in the same games.
I mean, you could argue for a DoT caster and even name it Time Mage, but it would actually be scrounging for effects it could use because virtually none would fall under known Time Magic spells.

Ah, you looked it at like that.
I did not really consider how Time Mage functioned in the old games, mostly just the aesthetics of time magic. Not like FFXIV Ninja is forced to spend their armory to do damage by sacrificing spare weapons.

"Slow" that damages and "Haste" that makes you do more damage can all be in the mood of "time magic to do more damage". Let AST keep the space magic, and let this DPS Time Mage just do damage with time-aesthetic spells. All in the game of just letting us get iconic Time Mage artifact gear into the game.

[LordMetal7]

Ah, you looked it at like that.
I did not really consider how Time Mage functioned in the old games, mostly just the aesthetics of time magic. Not like FFXIV Ninja is forced to spend their armory to do damage by sacrificing spare weapons.

"Slow" that damages and "Haste" that makes you do more damage can all be in the mood of "time magic to do more damage". Let AST keep the space magic, and let this DPS Time Mage just do damage with time-aesthetic spells. All in the game of just letting us get iconic Time Mage artifact gear into the game.

Question though but would time mage be more of a support type? because all i'm thinking is haste

[Shurrikhan]

I apologize but is all of this MCH Related? O.o

It was a reply to a post about Time Mage.

It follows from your title -- or, alternatives to your idea / what other ranged dps people would like to see added -- just not necessarily your particular idea for that space.

[LordMetal7]

It was a reply to a post about Time Mage.

It follows from your title -- or, alternatives to your idea / what other ranged dps people would like to see added -- just not necessarily your particular idea for that space.

lol right sorry ^^

[LordMetal7]

I could get behind some kind of Hunter/Ranger class that uses a Crossbow, but it would need another facet to it to improve it's identity.
Bard has songs, Dancer has... dances, Machinist has tech. What would Hunter get?.

Well my idea is for a new gunner class with more modern firearms than tech, sigh if only yoshi p could tell us i mean i would be very happy if we get something similar to laguna FF8 from dissidia, Also Lost ark is coming so i recommend when the game launches to try the gunner classes over there and then you will see the excitement.

[Shurrikhan]

Well my idea is for a new gunner class with more modern firearms than tech, sigh if only yoshi p could tell us i mean i would be very happy if we get something similar to laguna FF8 from dissidia, Also Lost ark is coming so i recommend when the game launches to try the gunner classes over there and then you will see the excitement.

Sadly, I really suspect Machinist is the closest we're going to get to Laguna. But at least hopefully we'll eventually get our grenades back, and maybe Hypercharge could, in fact, make us a (wo)man with a machine gun?