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[Semirhage]

Yeah Scholar was never OP. It merely warped the entire healer metagame around itself and was superior to the other two combined! Oh how maligned the poor Scholar of eld was. Now the darn dirty Stormblood and Shadowbringers changes destroyed its birthright throne and took it from its rightful place of being better than everyone else.

Sometimes when I'm angry about the awful treatment healers get, I look at Scholars raging that they're not the unquestioned stars of the show by divine right anymore with the other two fighting over the sidekick slot and think... it's not just the devs that have learned all the wrong lessons from the last two expansions.

[FoxCh40s]

Yeah Scholar was never OP. It merely warped the entire healer metagame around itself and was superior to the other two combined! Oh how maligned the poor Scholar of eld was. Now the darn dirty Stormblood and Shadowbringers changes destroyed its birthright throne and took it from its rightful place of being better than everyone else.

Sometimes when I'm angry about the awful treatment healers get, I look at Scholars raging that they're not the unquestioned stars of the show by divine right anymore with the other two fighting over the sidekick slot and think... it's not just the devs that have learned all the wrong lessons from the last two expansions.

This is the exact sentiment that got us where we are. Myself and other Scholars advocated for balance and superior job design for all the other healers. We wanted everyone brought up to Scholars enjoyment level, not everyone being brought down to White Mages bare bones play style.

We could have cared less about damage, numbers, healing, all of that was irrelevant. We enjoyed how the job was SOOOO satisfying to play. Managing cooldowns, dots, planning efficient timing and use of abilities. Spot healing for our other co-healers.

A Scholar's ultimate class fantasy was being of use, being a pure tactical assistant to an otherwise all powerful co healer. We made up for the other healers weaknesses, and they made up for ours. Pure synergy between the other jobs was absolute euphoria.

But because people refused to understand WHAT made Scholar so good (i.e. an incredibly invested, well knowledged player base for the job) they have cut it off at the knees, and now enjoy watching the entire role suffer, just to have petty satisfaction that a job that was "OP" was nerfed.

[Roeshel]

We could have cared less about damage, numbers, healing, all of that was irrelevant. We enjoyed how the job was SOOOO satisfying to play. Managing cooldowns, dots, planning efficient timing and use of abilities. Spot healing for our other co-healers.

Wasn't Selene deleted because she was useless? Where is the fun of being useless?

I don't see a lot of people playing old Scholar if they had to put twice as much effort to be on par with everyone else because right now this is true to some extent and people don't like that.

If I played FFXIV in previous expansions I would have mained Scholar without a second thought because they were better than anyone in anything and not so much because of the gameplay itself.

[FoxCh40s]

Wasn't Selene deleted because she was useless? Where is the fun of being useless?

I don't see a lot of people playing old Scholar if they had to put twice as much effort to be on par with everyone else because right now this is true to some extent and people don't like that.

If I played FFXIV in previous expansions I would have mained Scholar without a second thought because they were better than anyone in anything and not so much because of the gameplay itself.

Selene was the more useful near the end of expansions when we didn't need the extra healing potency.

She was never useless. Her AoE cleanse added later was fantastic, and the Fae Wind buff made a noticeable difference in speed of clears. They decided to remove Selene because they do not understand how Scholar works.

Who said we had to put twice as much effort in? Where was that said?

[Roeshel]

Who said we had to put twice as much effort in? Where was that said?

Well, because when you compare old Scholar to old White mage you will see that Scholar has more going on than White mage which means that they have to put more effort into playing optimally than a WHM.

[KDSilver]

Yeah... I don't understand how they could have design old scholar the way it was and yet not understanding what's going on now.
Was it pure luck?

[VictoriaLuv]

again.. lmao play sage scholar is dead

[FoxCh40s]

Well, because when you compare old Scholar to old White mage you will see that Scholar has more going on than White mage which means that they have to put more effort into playing optimally than a WHM.

Because original White Mage was straight forward. Aero instant cast, Aero 2 hard cast, Aero 3 hard cast, Stone -> Reapply dots.

Roeshel, can you please refrain from replying with sparky comments on things you weren't around for? It just makes you look, severely misinformed is the polite term I will use.

You have no clue what it was like to play back then, be quiet and let the FF14 "Adults" talk.

[Roeshel]

snip

Raid-buffs are useless when you lose DPS with each GCD cast. If WHM had AST's oGCD healing and movement they would have been dealing more damage than them even though they have no raid-wide buffs.

Sage does have similar oGCD as Scholar. The AE stacks abilities do almost the exact same thing as Sage's resource abilities and then Sage has 3 additional raid-wide oGCDs heal that consume no resource and another GCD attack with neutral DPS gain/loss with healing 400 potency and 10% damage reduction. That's their second AoE oGCD with mitigation.
For ST healing, Sage's fairy is cardia which heals twice as much with 2.5 GCD recast time. Soteria is their version of Fey union which is better all round. It is instant and it is strong. Instead of Excog they have 10% damage reduction Lustrate on 45s and for Lustrate they have Lustrate.
Sage also has cubic barrier on 120 cd that consumes no resource and an AoE version of the cube ability. Both oGCDs have stacks that turn into pure heal once the time runs out.

Sage is better than Scholar, there is should be no doubt about that. Chain stratagem and summon Seraph are the only abilities that Scholar doesn't share with Sage. Once the shield of Sage's Aldo is broken they get an Adder's sting charge. Once the shield of Scholer's aldo is broken they get nothing.

They are also some abilities missing so there could be even more to Sage's OP-ness.

[ty_taurus]

Raid-buffs are useless when you lose DPS with each GCD cast. If WHM had AST's oGCD healing and movement they would have been dealing more damage than them even though they have no raid-wide buffs.

Sage does have similar oGCD as Scholar. The AE stacks abilities do almost the exact same thing as Sage's resource abilities and then Sage has 3 additional raid-wide oGCDs heal that consume no resource and another GCD attack with neutral DPS gain/loss with healing 400 potency and 10% damage reduction. That's their second AoE oGCD with mitigation.
For ST healing, Sage's fairy is cardia which heals twice as much with 2.5 GCD recast time. Soteria is their version of Fey union which is better all round. It is instant and it is strong. Instead of Excog they have 10% damage reduction Lustrate on 45s and for Lustrate they have Lustrate.
Sage also has cubic barrier on 120 cd that consumes no resource and an AoE version of the cube ability. Both oGCDs have stacks that turn into pure heal once the time runs out.

Sage is better than Scholar, there is should be no doubt about that. Chain stratagem and summon Seraph are the only abilities that Scholar doesn't share with Sage. Once the shield of Sage's Aldo is broken they get an Adder's sting charge. Once the shield of Scholer's aldo is broken they get nothing.

They are also some abilities missing so there could be even more to Sage's OP-ness.

Playstyle and job design aside, the one thing we definitely can't say with certainty at this time is performance. We have no idea what costs and cooldowns have changed, if any, and it's entirely possible that there could be a far more significant change to SCH than the live letter's anemic slides would lead us to believe. Keep in mind they said nothing about Sacred Soil getting a regen during the ShB live letter, and that turned out to be a game-changing heal. There are some clear advantages Sage has at this time in theory, but we really don't know much about EW Scholar outside of the fact that it's core design problems aren't being addressed. One of the very few things they did specify though is that they did improve SCH's barrier potential in some fashion, whatever that means. It's entirely possible that they could have something to contend with the value of Adder's Sting/Serpent's Fang.

I wanna be clear that I'm not defending SCH's playstyle in any capacity--though despite being gutted going into Shadowbringers, it still ended up being a substantially important healer for raiding. Watch it still be the best or second-best healer despite being a design disaster.