[Unapproved Post][240 PB Requested]

[AFuzzyMu11in]

Bio II - Miasma - Swiftcast - Shadowflare - Bio - Aero - Broil - Lustrate - Succor party before raid wide hits - manually direct Eos to heal someone who got hit harder - Wait for it - Fey Illummination/Bio II - Bio/ Whispering Dawn - Virus/Sacred Soil - Aero/Manual Embrace Target - Broil - Broil - Broil - etc.

Way more complicated than now, I assure you. The fact that we can no longer simultaneously active fairy abilities with other abilities kills the complexity further right there.

That’s so disgustingly boring/long to learn no wonder I didn’t play sch back then Jesus. So much button bloat

[Hurrican]

Scholar being in the state it is now is due to the fact of a vast majority of big ol cry babies not being able to handle a superiorly designed job and a clear and unique class advantage.

what a spectacle.

Crying baby is crying about crying babies

[Doragan]

That’s so disgustingly boring/long to learn no wonder I didn’t play sch back then Jesus. So much button bloat

To be honest, I agree this was a lot of DPS actions back in the day, but here's the thing: you were always free to completely ignore them. If you weren't doing any hard content, you could just smash that broil&subscribe button like we have now and it wouldn't matter. Just spread the dots with bane and save MP or something.

Now, it's just broil, and now, it's just boring for everybody involved.

While I think HW went a bit too far in the number of DPS actions available, personally, I think SB was a pretty good middleground. ShB, unfortunately, broke the fairy management and gutted the DPS to the bare minimum. I think it's a real shame, because we finally got Recitation with this expansion.

[ty_taurus]

Sigh ...healers are not boring

The problem is, we learn too quickly, or read a guide to use our "ogcd" for certain mechanics in a boss fight, which ultimately turns healer boring in the fight "overtime"

First of all, it's illogical to place the blame on the player base for "learning too quickly." That's like saying "Want the job to be more fun? Just stop being good at it." Meanwhile plenty of other jobs retain a lot of engagement factors in all forms of content. It's not fair that healers are designed to be boring once learned unless pushed to the brink in the finite amount of high end duties the game has to offer. This is especially true because playing DPS jobs effectively requires lots of practice to familiarize yourself with the nuances of their gameplay. The point of a game is to always be fun, not only be fun the first time.

People have been screaming to add more "buttons" to the jobs which is the wrong thing to do...there is zero difference pressing 111112111112 (casts and 1dot) to 123123123123(combo) it's still boring even if u add two more combos on a spell

It really boils my blood that the people who are arguing against the "more buttons" argument assume that the only possible way that more DPS buttons could possibly be introduced is through a 123 combo when almost no one is asking for that. 95% of us that ask for more gameplay variety don't want that either. You're either not actually reading what anyone proposes or asks for, or you can't actually understand anything anyone has proposed on here and simply write it off as a 123 combo despite being hilariously inaccurate in that assumption.

If people want to make healers "fun" we should "gut" the "ogcd" side of healing , we have far too many "ogcd" healing that it pushes us into a turret mode, pressing a single button to heal a mechanic whilst blasting out the same skill over and over again

That's a valid point regarding OGCD healing, but the problem is that once we burn down to GCD healing, our actions don't really have any depth to them either. There's very little cohesiveness to be found in those actions alone, and a lot of the more intricate elements of healing comes from those OGCD heals. We could just throw them onto the GCD, but your old Cure, Cure II, Medica, and other standardize heals really just need to be modernized a bit. The Afflatus spells from WHM are a better example of what I mean, but those also aren't perfect.

So it would have been like this in ARR times

Cleric stance ON

Bio ll > Bio l > Miasma> Aero > Ruin spam for 15seconds > start to reapply all dots back to 18seconds > back to ruin spam for 15 seconds

I don't feel like ARR Scholar was the pinnacle of engaging design necessarily, but I think you're being a bit unfair with this assessment. First and foremost, having multiple DoTs with different timers means you need to actively pay attention to those timers so that you can reapply them as they fall off which did require quite a lot more focus than with what we have today. Remember that SCH didn't have Indomitability back then, nor did they have Fey Blessing or Emergency Tactics, so you really did need to think about party HP proactively or you'd be suck Succoring up the party up in some cases, and that's a very inefficient way to get the party back up to speed. There's obviously a lot of nuance here: (Can I afford to let the faerie heal everyone more slowly? What mechanics are coming up next?) It wasn't as cut-and-dry as you're making it out to be, especially since fights back then were noticeably less scripted in places.

The only thing that was different from now and then was....scholar had way more control over their fairy, by using "rouse" to boost its healing ability and can "manually" select embrace to players (was not a good thing) so scholars most of the time was micromanaging their fairy more back then rather then what they do now

Wait, why was manual Embrace a bad thing? It's not like you were required to play that way if it was too stressful to you. I don't really understand why we needed to take that away when it was always simply an option for players that wanted to go the extra mile. It certainly wasn't a requirement for you to do to clear content. It makes no sense to me why we would blatantly remove a quality of life option when it was never a necessity to begin with. It's like when Pokemon forced players to use the EXP Share (All) in Sword and Shield. Why? What benefit to you get from taking away a player's choice?

[Pyitoechito]

I don't think Scholar needs much at all to break the healer monotony.

Looking at AST as an example, the card system actually makes the job engaging even though it just has one filler GCD and a DoT. I generally have an enjoyable time juggling the cards with watching healing and keeping the GCD running. The cards also feel rewarding to throw around.

Just adding a second DoT for SCH to manage (as many have already suggested) could easily be enough to make SCH more engaging. Miasma III with a 1.5s cast and a 21~24s DoT so SCH has to juggle two DoTs on different durations. As a bonus, lower the potency of Art of War and toss in Bane (or make the Miasma line targeted AoEs with scaling to save space). As a double bonus, make a single-target version of Miasma II as an in-between for the Miasma line so the weird jump from I to III goes away (and switch Biolysis for the way prettier Bio III, too).


So pretty...

I wanted to suggest adding an instant GCD with charges for WHM's monotony break, but they already did that for SGE. Phlegma II for SGE is a 2-charge, 45s instant melee-range AoE GCD. Maybe exchange Cure III for a mini-targeted-Assize on charges; hits target and nearby enemies for (scaling) damage while also healing allies near target a little bit (small-ish radius).

Just adding some additional cooldowns/DoTs to keep an eye on can make the jobs more engaging, at least on some level.

[RinaB]

'What to do with SCH'
Nothing, go play sage. Not sure who is worse, DRK mains from hws or SCH players. If they cared about class identity they would have focused on them a lot more over the last 2 xpacs. They want to make healers and tanks face roll and that's why i won't play them anymore.

[Videra]

'What to do with SCH'
Nothing, go play sage. Not sure who is worse, DRK mains from hws or SCH players. If they cared about class identity they would have focused on them a lot more over the last 2 xpacs. They want to make healers and tanks face roll and that's why i won't play them anymore.

SCH is the red-headed stepchild of classes now. Such a sad fall from grace.