Hunts - Preventing prepulling and sniping

[Rowde]

SE never intended these to be shared by the entire server and I'm sure their network infrastructure isn't happy about it either.
When it gets to the point where peoples character models are being culled and the zones fill up preventing normal residents of that server to be unable to go about their business because they can't enter a zone, it's a problem.
If I happen to be around an S rank that's spawned, I'll join in the hunt. I'm not expecting to make it to every call, nor should anyone.

If anything we need people to stop being salty about what they consider an "early pull" (which by design isn't a thing), and to stop trying to witch hunt people that do initiate combat. Using bully tactics and accruing a mob mentality over these players is anguishing at best. Downright griefing at worst.

Pretty much how I engage with hunts now. If I'm in the zone and the notification goes up, I'll go poke it.

I'm really disappointed by the A Train meta completely taking over though. I feel like it's killed most of the chatter about hunts in game, as most of the conversation has moved to 3rd party apps where it's simply easier to organize train routes. It also makes me a little sad every time I see a new player, excited to find a mark for the first time, shout if anyone is willing to help them take it on... and no one shows up, or just shouts "wait for the train."

I remember in HW, when I found an A Rank at odd times, I could call it in shells and ppl would show up. Sometimes it was less than a full party and we'd actually have to communicate and figure out who was gonna play what role. Sure, perhaps it was less efficient, but I feel like it was a more meaningful experience. Sometimes we'd even fail to win, and have to deal with that... Could something have been done differently (besides simply having more ppl)?

[ACE135]

I'm really disappointed by the A Train meta completely taking over though. I feel like it's killed most of the chatter about hunts in game, as most of the conversation has moved to 3rd party apps where it's simply easier to organize train routes. It also makes me a little sad every time I see a new player, excited to find a mark for the first time, shout if anyone is willing to help them take it on... and no one shows up, or just shouts "wait for the train."

I remember in HW, when I found an A Rank at odd times, I could call it in shells and ppl would show up. Sometimes it was less than a full party and we'd actually have to communicate and figure out who was gonna play what role. Sure, perhaps it was less efficient, but I feel like it was a more meaningful experience. Sometimes we'd even fail to win, and have to deal with that... Could something have been done differently (besides simply having more ppl)?

I miss that times. I stopped doing hunts when cross world came. In early ShB I shouted some A ranks but either only one or two people showed up or you were told to wait for the train that is about to start in several hours. And when you managed to get some people to acutally attack the A rank you get told how selfish you are (that you aren't waiting a few hours for the train to come). After a few times I don't even bothered to shout them anymore. I think people are now too reliant on the few people who set up the trains. If they weren't, hunts would be unkilled for days. Before cross world was a thing, people would come to a shouted hunt because that was the only way to get the rewards. Now you have an oversupply of hunts that it doesn't matter if you miss some.

The main problem with the Hunt is that it has been too thoroughly solved and players have mostly optimized the fun out of the activity.

That is the sad thing that everything is driven by the rewards and not by the activity itself. People are willing to left the fun behind when that means they get their rewards even just one second faster or with one percent less effort.

Back in HW and early SB I went through the maps looking for A ranks as soon as they could spawn again. Nearly all day long. And people came whenever you or other people found a hunt and shoutet, even at night. Now there's no need for that anymore. Sadly. Through that I lost interest completely in hunting. Now I wouln't even attend on killing an S rank even if it were directly in front of me.

It's sad but times changed.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Hunts are basically the NMs and HNM's for this game. Basically like they said first come first served. The difference is that these don't have special rare drops that require "ownership" of the monster during the kill to have a chance of obtaining them. I've killed A rank hunt targets solo in various areas just because they were in the way when I was doing something else like lvling other jobs. I'd have probably killed an S rank in ARR or HW areas solo if I came across one.

I pretty much only kill them when it's convenient. I'm not one of these people trying to claim every single one to get that mount reward which I suspect is the whole cause of "early pull" complaints to begin with.

[KageTokage]

I do feel like they should do something about the current state of older hunts if they're going to keep attaching relevant rewards to all of them, coupled with the fact that there's an abundance of people using third party programs that can instantly locate and automatically relay the S ranks to everyone else using it as long as one person with said program is present in the zone (Usually a bot, of which many have hunt detectors built into their basic functionality).

The overall hunt attendance is higher then ever due to crossworld travel and the aforementioned automated hunt relays and it really sucks to be the one who actually spends the time spawning something then not even getting full credit for it because those people who just AFK at the aetherytes waiting for bot relays showed up and swarmed it before you could even find it.

Putting a hard limit on quickly they can die via a buff that limits how much damage they can take per hit would probably be the most simple way to accomplish that, though also making it so you can check if a hunt's spawn window is open/closed at the hunt NPCs would remove the two main grievances I have with the system presently.

If they have level sync to prevent FATEs from getting deleted (Ignoring BLU, though even that got mostly addressed by adding consistent instakill immunity to FATE bosses from HW onwards), it doesn't really make sense to not have a similar mechanic in place for something that is both rarer and much more rewarding.

[SamSmoot]

I haven't participated in a S-rank kill for so long I've forgotten what the rewards are.
The last one I did intentionally was the giant mecha-frog in Kholusia for the mount tokens.

[Shougun]

I do think there are a few systems in place that kind of cheapen the 'hunt' vibe, from the rampant relay / 'mods', cross world train of doom mowing down your own server, losing out on your own spawn due to hyper active trains, to just out leveling a content area causing a non-desirable death rate (if one wanted to participate).

My thought was to lean into some of the issues while offering some sort of counter support system. Like if you found a hunt in the wild they might not be as strong as they are now (they're designed, sort of, to handle huge crowds) and you'd get an extra reward for killing them, encouraging people to GO GO GO and 'hunt' for them (A rank thoughts at least). Then if you come to their death site there might be a pyre fly effect (FFX) and you could fight them in a semi-phased circle around where they died (phases out other players, that sphere is an 'instance' but you're fighting in the open world), the time from death determines how many rolls from normal are lost (so currently say there is 3 item rolls, for loot, then now killing it live would be 3.5 - 4, right after death 3, half time to revive 2, third time to revive 1, and then like that last bit they fade away). Strength of the NM based on time since death, and you can force the fight to be weaker. Give the current hunting log a face lift with actual hunt focus (tracking hunt kills - first time rewards too, so all B ranks first time you see them are more exciting, time till you can get rewards again, bills, etc).

For S ranks, I know there is maybe too many for this, but thinking like taking those huge events in GW2 for world boss multi-stage fights, consider making more of those out of S ranks (Odin, Ixion, Behemoth definitely apply). In which case multiple stages, as well as specific mechanics, DESIGNED, to encourage absolutely insane number of player participation like stress test designs. Those that don't get morphed into purposefully 'world scale' can go into the above system. Random example of multi-stage might be like Odin, the special weather happens, there are nodes around the map you have to find if you don't they will fly to Odin empowering him (each node giving him perhaps 1 stack buff that is consumed for instant kill attacks), once summoned his spear is in one location and him in another (designed to be a distance away), he'll start moving that way and fighting him will slow that down, crafters and gathers can help produce a shield around the spear while monsters attack the site (other players to help, can have some level differences in the FATE to open up more player point entrances), he'll reach the shield and start to break it down as the spear powers down, once he gets to the spear he'll start to leap around (and if SE wants to be insane they can do one of those huge over the top summon attack spells onto the whole zone or something, like FFXV lol), absolutely wrecking every single player but also there will be slyphs and gridania npcs raising players while monsters everywhere go crazy (whole zone fate), and players have to find Odin before he does his crazy attack again (after X times he'll kill the entire zone that was part of the FATE, causing a ripple to go through nearby zones too, I want to say those not too but I can imagine new players being side swiped so hard they're mad lol), so a bit of a DPS race. Could keep up the crafter gather / low level opportunities with aether compasses and tethers trying to make it easy for other players to pin point him and then hold him down (lower level players can bring in crafted aether chain cannons, like the bismark fight, and interact with the fight, use potions to heal, buff, raise, etc). Overall such an event would take place over like 20 minutes minimum, if you didn't get to join it then it's because the server broke or because you didn't try.

[EtherRose]

For those stating it's a "First come first serve" , it really isn't. Why? If it was a first come first serve than other parties wouldn't receive rewards for contribution of damage. Only the main party who engaged. This would be "First come first serve". It's also like stating "FATE's" are first come first serve when it's a event for everybody.

An prime example of first come first serve is like mining iron nodes in New World or Runescape, etc.

TBH, it's like a grey area.

[raelgun]

For those stating it's a "First come first serve" , it really isn't. Why? If it was a first come first serve than other parties wouldn't receive rewards for contribution of damage. Only the main party who engaged. This would be "First come first serve". It's also like stating "FATE's" are first come first serve when it's a event for everybody.

An prime example of first come first serve is like mining iron nodes in New World or Runescape, etc.

TBH, it's like a grey area.

Its not a grey area, you pull first, you get to kill it.

If you try to drag the hunt boss away from its area to reset it, its against the TOS.

SE has pointed this out ages ago.

Also the hunts was never designed for the whole server to join in, the design intent is for those that completed the 'hunt' gets first dibs and get to pull when ever they want, anyone else that joins in on time gets something but thats fine.

The party that did the hunt never had to wait on others, this is the design intent for hunts from the very start and still is.

[EtherRose]

Its not a grey area, you pull first, you get to kill it.

If you try to drag the hunt boss away from its area to reset it, its against the TOS.

SE has pointed this out ages ago.

Also the hunts was never designed for the whole server to join in, the design intent is for those that completed the 'hunt' gets first dibs and get to pull when ever they want, anyone else that joins in on time gets something but thats fine.

The party that did the hunt never had to wait on others, this is the design intent for hunts from the very start and still is.

Yea, no. It is a grey area. I think the point here you're not understanding is if it's truly a "First come first serve" you would not get credit or rewards at all. You still get credit for the kill towards achievements even if you didn't pull first, etc.

Again, grey area. You say the intended design was for those who ever found the hunt gets first dibs, etc. If that was the intended design than again no other parties would get credit or the same rewards as the party who pulled it.

If it truly was "First come first serve" - Only the pulling party would get credit and rewards.

[raelgun]

Yea, no. It is a grey area. I think the point here you're not understanding is if it's truly a "First come first serve" you would not get credit or rewards at all. You still get credit for the kill towards achievements even if you didn't pull first, etc.

Again, grey area. You say the intended design was for those who ever found the hunt gets first dibs, etc. If that was the intended design than again no other parties would get credit or the same rewards as the party who pulled it.

If it truly was "First come first serve" - Only the pulling party would get credit and rewards.

First come first serve on the pull then, what you arent getting is, no one has to wait. The group that spawned it can pull right away and if it dies before anyone else gets to it, thats intended by design.

There is no early pulls!