Hunts - Preventing prepulling and sniping

[Shougun]

I do think there are a few systems in place that kind of cheapen the 'hunt' vibe, from the rampant relay / 'mods', cross world train of doom mowing down your own server, losing out on your own spawn due to hyper active trains, to just out leveling a content area causing a non-desirable death rate (if one wanted to participate).

My thought was to lean into some of the issues while offering some sort of counter support system. Like if you found a hunt in the wild they might not be as strong as they are now (they're designed, sort of, to handle huge crowds) and you'd get an extra reward for killing them, encouraging people to GO GO GO and 'hunt' for them (A rank thoughts at least). Then if you come to their death site there might be a pyre fly effect (FFX) and you could fight them in a semi-phased circle around where they died (phases out other players, that sphere is an 'instance' but you're fighting in the open world), the time from death determines how many rolls from normal are lost (so currently say there is 3 item rolls, for loot, then now killing it live would be 3.5 - 4, right after death 3, half time to revive 2, third time to revive 1, and then like that last bit they fade away). Strength of the NM based on time since death, and you can force the fight to be weaker. Give the current hunting log a face lift with actual hunt focus (tracking hunt kills - first time rewards too, so all B ranks first time you see them are more exciting, time till you can get rewards again, bills, etc).

For S ranks, I know there is maybe too many for this, but thinking like taking those huge events in GW2 for world boss multi-stage fights, consider making more of those out of S ranks (Odin, Ixion, Behemoth definitely apply). In which case multiple stages, as well as specific mechanics, DESIGNED, to encourage absolutely insane number of player participation like stress test designs. Those that don't get morphed into purposefully 'world scale' can go into the above system. Random example of multi-stage might be like Odin, the special weather happens, there are nodes around the map you have to find if you don't they will fly to Odin empowering him (each node giving him perhaps 1 stack buff that is consumed for instant kill attacks), once summoned his spear is in one location and him in another (designed to be a distance away), he'll start moving that way and fighting him will slow that down, crafters and gathers can help produce a shield around the spear while monsters attack the site (other players to help, can have some level differences in the FATE to open up more player point entrances), he'll reach the shield and start to break it down as the spear powers down, once he gets to the spear he'll start to leap around (and if SE wants to be insane they can do one of those huge over the top summon attack spells onto the whole zone or something, like FFXV lol), absolutely wrecking every single player but also there will be slyphs and gridania npcs raising players while monsters everywhere go crazy (whole zone fate), and players have to find Odin before he does his crazy attack again (after X times he'll kill the entire zone that was part of the FATE, causing a ripple to go through nearby zones too, I want to say those not too but I can imagine new players being side swiped so hard they're mad lol), so a bit of a DPS race. Could keep up the crafter gather / low level opportunities with aether compasses and tethers trying to make it easy for other players to pin point him and then hold him down (lower level players can bring in crafted aether chain cannons, like the bismark fight, and interact with the fight, use potions to heal, buff, raise, etc). Overall such an event would take place over like 20 minutes minimum, if you didn't get to join it then it's because the server broke or because you didn't try.

[raelgun]

I too would like for some sort of immunity, not 10 minutes, maybe like 3 or 5.

Has Yoshida made a statement pertaining to hunts and how he feels about this?

Yes he has, its first come first serve.

[EtherRose]

For those stating it's a "First come first serve" , it really isn't. Why? If it was a first come first serve than other parties wouldn't receive rewards for contribution of damage. Only the main party who engaged. This would be "First come first serve". It's also like stating "FATE's" are first come first serve when it's a event for everybody.

An prime example of first come first serve is like mining iron nodes in New World or Runescape, etc.

TBH, it's like a grey area.

[KageTokage]

I wouldn't be against the "first come first serve" policy if not for the fact that you're practically forced to rely on relays from third party software nowdays if you want to ensure you're able to get some hits in as the bot relay networks have become so pervasive that more often then not any S rank spawns is immediately known of by several people across the entire data center and it makes every single hunt into a mad scramble; particularly during the post-expansion/patch release periods where the player population is at its peak.

There really would be no harm in increasing how long it takes to kill them considering that their effort to reward ratio is already extremely lop-sided for anyone who isn't actually doing the spawning. Alternatively, having a delay before the hunt actually spawns after it's "triggered" might be even better as it would prevent them being immediately detected by the radar programs that are reading the data from the game client if they instead had some kind of placeholder with limited draw distance like footprints show up where the hunt is due to spawn, then have the hunt actually appear a couple minutes later.

[raelgun]

For those stating it's a "First come first serve" , it really isn't. Why? If it was a first come first serve than other parties wouldn't receive rewards for contribution of damage. Only the main party who engaged. This would be "First come first serve". It's also like stating "FATE's" are first come first serve when it's a event for everybody.

An prime example of first come first serve is like mining iron nodes in New World or Runescape, etc.

TBH, it's like a grey area.

Its not a grey area, you pull first, you get to kill it.

If you try to drag the hunt boss away from its area to reset it, its against the TOS.

SE has pointed this out ages ago.

Also the hunts was never designed for the whole server to join in, the design intent is for those that completed the 'hunt' gets first dibs and get to pull when ever they want, anyone else that joins in on time gets something but thats fine.

The party that did the hunt never had to wait on others, this is the design intent for hunts from the very start and still is.

[Rowde]

SE never intended these to be shared by the entire server and I'm sure their network infrastructure isn't happy about it either.
When it gets to the point where peoples character models are being culled and the zones fill up preventing normal residents of that server to be unable to go about their business because they can't enter a zone, it's a problem.
If I happen to be around an S rank that's spawned, I'll join in the hunt. I'm not expecting to make it to every call, nor should anyone.

If anything we need people to stop being salty about what they consider an "early pull" (which by design isn't a thing), and to stop trying to witch hunt people that do initiate combat. Using bully tactics and accruing a mob mentality over these players is anguishing at best. Downright griefing at worst.

Pretty much how I engage with hunts now. If I'm in the zone and the notification goes up, I'll go poke it.

I'm really disappointed by the A Train meta completely taking over though. I feel like it's killed most of the chatter about hunts in game, as most of the conversation has moved to 3rd party apps where it's simply easier to organize train routes. It also makes me a little sad every time I see a new player, excited to find a mark for the first time, shout if anyone is willing to help them take it on... and no one shows up, or just shouts "wait for the train."

I remember in HW, when I found an A Rank at odd times, I could call it in shells and ppl would show up. Sometimes it was less than a full party and we'd actually have to communicate and figure out who was gonna play what role. Sure, perhaps it was less efficient, but I feel like it was a more meaningful experience. Sometimes we'd even fail to win, and have to deal with that... Could something have been done differently (besides simply having more ppl)?

[KageTokage]

I do agree that cross-world hunting has kind of worsened the experience overall between the overcrowding and stuff dying way too quickly.

I would honestly not be against them just not allowing players from other servers to interact with hunt marks for the sake of mitigating both.

[EtherRose]

Its not a grey area, you pull first, you get to kill it.

If you try to drag the hunt boss away from its area to reset it, its against the TOS.

SE has pointed this out ages ago.

Also the hunts was never designed for the whole server to join in, the design intent is for those that completed the 'hunt' gets first dibs and get to pull when ever they want, anyone else that joins in on time gets something but thats fine.

The party that did the hunt never had to wait on others, this is the design intent for hunts from the very start and still is.

Yea, no. It is a grey area. I think the point here you're not understanding is if it's truly a "First come first serve" you would not get credit or rewards at all. You still get credit for the kill towards achievements even if you didn't pull first, etc.

Again, grey area. You say the intended design was for those who ever found the hunt gets first dibs, etc. If that was the intended design than again no other parties would get credit or the same rewards as the party who pulled it.

If it truly was "First come first serve" - Only the pulling party would get credit and rewards.

[raelgun]

Yea, no. It is a grey area. I think the point here you're not understanding is if it's truly a "First come first serve" you would not get credit or rewards at all. You still get credit for the kill towards achievements even if you didn't pull first, etc.

Again, grey area. You say the intended design was for those who ever found the hunt gets first dibs, etc. If that was the intended design than again no other parties would get credit or the same rewards as the party who pulled it.

If it truly was "First come first serve" - Only the pulling party would get credit and rewards.

First come first serve on the pull then, what you arent getting is, no one has to wait. The group that spawned it can pull right away and if it dies before anyone else gets to it, thats intended by design.

There is no early pulls!

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Yea, no. It is a grey area. I think the point here you're not understanding is if it's truly a "First come first serve" you would not get credit or rewards at all. You still get credit for the kill towards achievements even if you didn't pull first, etc.

Again, grey area. You say the intended design was for those who ever found the hunt gets first dibs, etc. If that was the intended design than again no other parties would get credit or the same rewards as the party who pulled it.

If it truly was "First come first serve" - Only the pulling party would get credit and rewards.

Except that's not how this game works with rewards of any kind, because that's bad design, and is also the main reason why I loathe open world content in general and it would only be bearable in this game because anyone can get credit.


But it's still first come first serve. There is no gray area. A person crafting at their fc house has no rights to a hunt spawn.