Quick thought with paladin and 1.22b

[Duelle]

STR is a DMG stat, how strong I am doesn't help me get my shield in the way of that sword, it doesn't help me dodge the next attack and it doesn't help me get my weapon up into the path of the next attack headed my way. It does determine how large a shield I can carry effectively, since a larger shield covers more of me it stands to reason that it'd be easier to block with, it doesn't have to move as far or as accurately, than say a buckler which I'd have to move pretty precisely to make sure that it ate the brunt of the next attack instead of my arm, that's a dex/agi thing.

According to FFXI. I'm trying to be a little more generalized when looking at stats. Though yes, Warriors and Paladins in WoW had shield block rating and chance of block boosted by strength. As I said, it helps the stat serve a dual purpose while keeping in mind that tank DPS does matter to an extent. That way STR doesn't look like a waste of itemization or awkward as a main stat for PLD.

IF PLD isn't meant to be a DDing Tank STR should simply NOT be one of it's primary stats. They should be chosen from DEX(block acc/rate) VIT(hp pdt) MND(Cure potency, mdt)

We're both speaking on opinion. I think that if STR doesn't do enough for PLD then it needs to be changes in a way that it does more for a PLD and only a PLD. If it has to come down to stat scaling per individual class rather than a blanket rule that applies to everyone, I am fine with that because I know it'll most likely get the job done.

When you choose a Paladin, you Sacrifice a greater amount of DD, but this is supposedly compensated for the Paladin having healing abilities. Because (if we are to suppose the two jobs possess a similar ability to mitigate damage), the group as a whole is still taking slightly less damage overall, the exact same proportion of healing potential is wasted again. The healing abilities of the Paladin should allow one of the healers to take the role as a DD.

Don't go down that road, please. Healing has and should always be secondary in the case of PLD. The closer it is to flavor, the better. As such, the healing should always be weaker and fall into the "nice to have" category. Remember that the job is a knight in shining armor, not half tank half healer.

[waldo]

Christ some really long post here. I was just saying, common sen e tells me warrior tanking stats match up perfectly, VIT & STR, for their role... Paladin doesn't seem to match at all for a tanking roll. STR and MND doesn't seem optimal for a paladin style tank.

My common since may be flawed, but all I'm saying is before warrior is dismantled and paladin skills and WS are changed all around, give the primary and secondary stats a look SE.

Thanks

[Ramesses]

Excellent discussion to be honest... and I found the debate very enlightening. Huge credit should be given to the developers for really tweaking (and continuing to tweak?) the Paladin class

One thing that I will also agree upon is that Paladin needs a couple additional skills that helps to spike and maintain enimity... perhaps adding Provoke from the MRD skill set really would make this work.

It should also be noted that sometimes, a couple other job classes really could help paladin tank properly, similar to how in FFXI (on certain HNM boss fights), PLD and NIN could bounce hate. Just a thought.

[Duelle]

Christ some really long posts here. I was just saying, common sense tells me warrior tanking stats match up perfectly, VIT & STR, for their role. Paladin doesn't seem to match at all for a tanking role. STR and MND doesn't seem optimal for a paladin style tank.

My common sense may be flawed, but all I'm saying is before warrior is dismantled and paladin skills and WS are changed all around, give the primary and secondary stats a look, SE.

I don't think anyone here said anything about WAR being dismantled.

What we're arguing is that instead of changing PLD's main stats, the main stats should be adjusted in a way that they benefit PLD exclusively.

[baijiazi]

I dun play paladin but was having an idea of

Warrior = offensive tank (High Hp, High attack)
Paladin = defensive tank (High block rate, High defense)

Correct me if Im wrong but the tank's main job is to keep the mob on them right?
So getting and maintaining enmity is the primary purpose of the tank.

Warrior generate enmity by doing more damage,
Paladin could increase enmity by a partial or successful block.

Warrior should need more heals in a party when tanking
Paladin should require less heals (excluding that he heals himself)

This should gives more choice for a party if they need 1 more whm or DD.

Well, as I said I dun play pally so I'm not sure how it goes,
but generally speaking this is my thought when I was thinking about how to differentiate between pally and warrior

[Andrien]

I dun play paladin but was having an idea of

Warrior = offensive tank (High Hp, High attack)
Paladin = defensive tank (High block rate, High defense)

Correct me if Im wrong but the tank's main job is to keep the mob on them right?
So getting and maintaining enmity is the primary purpose of the tank.

Warrior generate enmity by doing more damage,
Paladin could increase enmity by a partial or successful block.

Warrior should need more heals in a party when tanking
Paladin should require less heals (excluding that he heals himself)

This should gives more choice for a party if they need 1 more whm or DD.

Well, as I said I dun play pally so I'm not sure how it goes,
but generally speaking this is my thought when I was thinking about how to differentiate between pally and warrior

That is all nice and dandy, but I think PLD should be the preferred tank regardless, since they ain't good at anything else. If a job can tank and also dish out damage then that is broken. I would prefer WAR as a damage dealer, while still being able to fend of foes, but not in a over powering way.

PLD should survive the most powerful attacks, and hold hate. That should go to PLD without a doubt.

[Duelle]

That is all nice and dandy, but I think PLD should be the preferred tank regardless, since they ain't good at anything else. If a job can tank and also dish out damage then that is broken. I would prefer WAR as a damage dealer, while still being able to fend of foes, but not in a over powering way.

PLD should survive the most powerful attacks, and hold hate. That should go to PLD without a doubt.

Limiting the game to one tank class is a very bad thing, so no thanks. We need more variety in our party roles, not less.

[Aion]

Limiting the game to one tank class is a very bad thing, so no thanks. We need more variety in our party roles, not less.

yeah,just like what happened now.....

[Duelle]

yeah,just like what happened now.....

WAR being picked over PLD means PLD needs to be fixed, not that WAR's ability to tank should be taken away. Try again.

[waldo]

WAR being picked over PLD means PLD needs to be fixed, not that WAR's ability to tank should be taken away. Try again.

Warrior either needs to be a good tank, or good DPS. Not both. Sorry for all those that don't want to hear this, but it's 100% true.

When paladin's start being both good tanks, and good healers, I will take what I said back, but until then, both classes should only get to do one thing well.