Will Beastmaster appear in any Endwalker content patches?

[aveyond-dreams]

Another reminder that restricting Blue Mage to being a "real" DPS job means limiting its role flexibility by no longer allowing it to also be a healer or tank role depending on individual player preferences and unique customization options.

I don't really care, as it stands now I'd rather take a standard dps, tank, or healer instead of a job that cannot fulfill any one of those roles in the current expansion we're in. There's no point in having 1000 spells to choose from if most of them are reskins, nerfed to not work on bosses, and only useable in content released over 2 years ago.

"It has a different radius!" and it still hits for 100 potency like half the other spells. Yeah...not so unique.


Let us go out and learn some core spells for a rotation so we can do something with the job besides moogle events and allied seals carnival.

[jon041065]

Another reminder that restricting Blue Mage to being a "real" DPS job means limiting its role flexibility by no longer allowing it to also be a healer or tank role depending on individual player preferences and unique customization options; in fact, I made a post earlier in this very thread pointing out several ways that some previously proposed changes to the current design of Blue Mage are ironically limiting themselves...

You could still learn spells the same way with a full job version of blu but then yes there would need to be checks to see if spells are learned but we already have that happening with the current job quests. Lock the ability to queue up behind job quest completion which is a bit of an ugly approach. A better option would be to have full blu be unlocked after completion of the carnivale to a certain point which would require a good amount of spells. Could also have job stones for tank, caster dps, and healer that are earned through short quests that require the necessary spells to be known.

[Shurrikhan]

If people want a "traditional" Blue Mage job that isn't Limited in the content it can broach, there is no reason the devs should consider the existing Limited Job such an obstacle or even in the same sphere of development in the creation of such a candidate. If anything, the existing iteration of Blue Mage only serves as an obstacle to the design of future Limited Jobs (eg not repeating the same gimmick), not to future Disciples of Magic; the key obstacle to a future "traditional" Blue Mage stand-in -- if such a job were ever going to happen, mind -- is in designing a fitting, unique, and functional playstyle.

This is where I have to disagree. An already-tapped thematic space, without sufficient separation that would in turn affect BLU, too, is naturally going to appear less lucrative than would a still-open space. RPR was able to join that space only because DRK took the form it took, opposite it. I don't think DRK or RPR ultimately lost out as job concepts for that pairing, but they mirrored each other from each side, rather than one taking up the whole center of the space while another was pushed off to one edge.

Yes, I could throw together a very "XIV" original concept for a largely overlapping thematic space such as the Wildling (similarly eclectic, versatile, and morphing, as a hybrid of a sort of Berserker, Morpher, and Blue Mage), but I will have to offset it from and due to what BLU has already put out there. The limited job WILL have an effect there, just as any other job within a shared thematic space. To place add something there as fittingly as RPR has met DRK, I'd have to adjust BLU. But that still begs the question: Why can't I just have a full-fledged BLU from the start, rather than mini-game BLU and an alt-BLU? Why should I add BLU-2 just to make up for already avoidable issues in BLU-1, instead of merely correcting BLU-1?

Adding that BLU-2, or Wildling, or Morpher, or Antimage, or Kineticist, or whatever else, moreover, wouldn't (A) redeem BLU's playflow in any way to make the Moon Flute opener and its subsequent minute-and-a-half loops any more entertaining nor (B) make the resources spent on BLU's non-combat-related gimmicks any more efficiently spent. Yes, the latter faces some demand for uniqueness in gimmick, but the underlying systems can be duplicated to some regard without sacrificing novelty -- such as in having BST's pet-taming work off such. I'll remind you, though, my issue has never been with those systems; rather, it's with those systems being used as an excuse for half-assed playflow, e.g., "Because we provided you with [this dull grind loop] and restricted [this mode of side-content] to your class, we are excused from providing [an engaging rotational loop or meaningful nuance]."

the key obstacle to a future "traditional" Blue Mage stand-in -- if such a job were ever going to happen, mind -- is in designing a fitting, unique, and functional playstyle.

Which I repeat, nobody has yet suggested.

Probably because, again, such was already suggested for BLU itself. If you look back at the HW era, for instance, you could find people just about begging for a BLU that fit the aesthetic of the Sohm Ahl gear on one end -- that would leverage a much more aggressive theme ("chest-out", "shit-eating grin", with "bestial cunning") -- and the likes of the Garlean Omega-weapon on the other ("controlling, tactical, manipulative") -- both deliberately and innately versatile due to the synergies likely to occur across skills of multiple roles when taking from an initial a hypersized toolkit a more normally-sized "deck" of skills. That's got a ton of appeal that a pimp cane and overpowered additional effect gimmicks alone will not make up for.

[Shurrikhan]

Exactly. Limited BLU is interesting because of it's customization, wide array of weird and gimmicky spells and lack of overall balance. To add BLU to the standard heap, you'll have to gut everything that is remotely interesting. Maybe jon, aveyond and Shurrikhan are fine with that because throughout this entire conversation it's all about just getting the job to max level above anything else.

Umm, no. I can't speak for Jon and Aveyond -- as I suspect our views differ significantly, such as in that I do not want to see a BLU as merely another Magical Ranged DPS -- but for me it is certainly not merely about getting the job to max level.

It is instead about making its uniqueness actually carry over to its combat and playflow, rather than being mostly constrained to its acquisition gimmicks or the 'glory' of overpowered but nonetheless basic heal casts. Ultimately, if the meme spells were replaced with actual synergies (an no, dmg mod stacking is not sufficient) and BLU actually therefore capable of engaging playflows, yeah, I'd like to actually be able to still play that then-engaging job in current and even matchmade content, but that's secondary to it first being a well-built job, none of which need sacrifice its oversized kit or its systems of acquisition.

I have a feeling they won't like this basic-beach BLU though.

I wouldn't enjoy a "basic-beach" BLU, but, AGAIN, unique systems of acquisition and deck-building do NOT demand that a job be locked out of current content, and allowing BLU to do current content does NOT demand it be released only in "basic-beach" form. The requirement is the (quite considerable) effort of creating a job with an several-fold ability count -- no more, no less. Such in turn, though, requires that BLU is actually treated as a job, and not merely a guise for side-content or a revitalizing system for doing past expansion's dungeons and trials.

You can have the oversized toolkit and still have interesting spells; it's only from having both, together, that you have any interesting deck-building. That deliberate deck-building, not merely the "gotta catch acquire them all (but really only the top 28 spells you'd every really use anyways)", imo, should have been the point of the job. But alas, it's not a job in which additional time has been spent to un-limit it relative to most; it is instead, quite differently, a gimmick first and a job only as a means of that gimmick's application.

[jon041065]

Exactly. Limited BLU is interesting because of it's customization, wide array of weird and gimmicky spells and lack of overall balance. To add BLU to the standard heap, you'll have to gut everything that is remotely interesting. Maybe jon, aveyond and Shurrikhan are fine with that because throughout this entire conversation it's all about just getting the job to max level above anything else. I have a feeling they won't like this basic-beach BLU though.

When did I ever say to just gut what we have currently as blue mage and let it be in the full game? I've said that I'd pick a full job blue mage if I was forced to pick between limited blu and full blu but have very much been pushing for both sides to be happy in the end. The only group I don't care if they "lose" are those that seem to only care if the other side is left unhappy in the end.

I've thrown out my own ideas, linked to ideas from others, and made a thread shortly after the reveal of limited blu for others to keep posting concepts or the basis of what they would like to see.

Most of us are not asking for limited blue mage to be removed or to not continue going forward but that a version of the job is made available to play in the full game in a future expac. That's fine if that isn't what you want just as I don't want a dual pistol job and some other desired jobs I've seen proposed on the forums. What I'm not going to do is say that those players shouldn't see the jobs they want to be play be added. I'll stick to requesting what I want to see. So I don't understand saying that a full blue mage shouldn't be added because you wouldn't find it interesting IF we are able to have a full blue mage in addition to what blue mage is already in the game. Why does it matter to you if what you like will still be there but other players also get what they would like?

Umm, no. I can't speak for Jon and Aveyond -- as I suspect our views differ significantly, such as in that I do not want to see a BLU as merely another Magical Ranged DPS -- but for me it is certainly not merely about getting the job to max level.

I wanted a blue mage tank ideally. Or a melee counterpart to red mage but melee blu is unlikely as there doesn't exist a framework currently like there is for tank, healer, and caster dps blu. I put out my idea for how I would like to see a dps version of blue mage play is my post I linked in an earlier post. Just change carry over the idea to ranged spells instead of melee ones.

[Shurrikhan]

I wanted a blue mage tank ideally. Or a melee counterpart to red mage but melee blu is unlikely as there doesn't exist a framework currently like there is for tank, healer, and caster dps blu. I put out my idea for how I would like to see a dps version of blue mage play is my post I linked in an earlier post. Just change carry over the idea to ranged spells instead of melee ones.

I absolutely do not want a single-role BLU (it's already far too single-role for me), but if it absolutely had to be one, I'd have most liked it to be a tank (healer least, and psuedo-Melee equally as fitting to me as Ranged) -- just not as another example of the homogeneity we currently see across that role.

[Shironeko_Narunyan]

Jobs like BST and PUP are pet classes which historically haven’t worked well in this game. Case in point summoner and it’s rework.

I don't even understand what's so hard about making proper pet classes. SMN was half-assed from the very inception and never got a proper pet implementation.
Maybe it has to do with the game's systems being held back historically by consoles... but XIV now supports modern systems that could work pretty well on a PlayStation, too.

That pet classes work if done properly has been shown in many older games. Heck, in DAoC, I ran a complete skeleton party with my Bonedancer, and in WOW, pets are normal.

[MellowMink]

I don't really care, as it stands now I'd rather take a standard dps, tank, or healer instead of a job that cannot fulfill any one of those roles in the current expansion we're in.

At least you admit that you don't care about other commenters who would rather have more flexibility with the job and its gameplay variety. Many people (including myself) like the fact that the job has more variety with regards to role selection than other jobs, which again is ironically less limiting in that regard, not more.

[Auryan]

I wouldn't enjoy a "basic-beach" BLU, but, AGAIN, unique systems of acquisition and deck-building do NOT demand that a job be locked out of current content, and allowing BLU to do current content does NOT demand it be released only in "basic-beach" form. The requirement is the (quite considerable) effort of creating a job with an several-fold ability count -- no more, no less. Such in turn, though, requires that BLU is actually treated as a job, and not merely a guise for side-content or a revitalizing system for doing past expansion's dungeons and trials.

You can have the oversized toolkit and still have interesting spells; it's only from having both, together, that you have any interesting deck-building. That deliberate deck-building, not merely the "gotta catch acquire them all (but really only the top 28 spells you'd every really use anyways)", imo, should have been the point of the job. But alas, it's not a job in which additional time has been spent to un-limit it relative to most; it is instead, quite differently, a gimmick first and a job only as a means of that gimmick's application.

The fact that it's a job-as-side-content is why I enjoy it. I don't care for a large number of the jobs, so it being a piece of content I can do between the daily routine is much appreciated in my book. I agree with the fact that the entire package is what makes BLU interesting. Remove or alter any part will ruin the whole experience. And I know what would happen if they try to balance it. It would lose all of its customization and flavor, as well as a severely diminished emphasis on the learning aspect. Let's not kid ourselves. You can convince yourself that you can have it all, but I thought that was ridiculous in 2019 and I still do now.

[Grimoire-M]

Personally, if I were to implement Blue Mage all over again, I would have sold it was a melee scouting DPS or tank, and focused on shapeshifting as the primary mechanic. There are a lot of jobs that ‘could’ fit that mold, but Blue Mage is the only established archetype that actively cares about shapeshifting. It’s a job that would have benefitted greatly from the early quest focused style of job ability acquisition. The ‘collectathon’ aspects I would have treated the same way as performance, a secondary emote system that has no place in regular combat.