Sage

[Truen]

I too am excited to play a healer that can dps...at least until Yoshi P ruins it too.

[relhsur]

If they revert Sage in 7.0 back to spamming 1 DPS skill along with the rest of the healers I'll be extremely disappointed. If they abandon the Green DPS design and make healers spend 90% of their time healing instead, that's an immediate uninstall for me.

Is Sage not spamming 1 DPS skill? I guess we have a melee skill every ~45 seconds (Phlegma) but I don't think that's enough to say we're not spamming 1 DPS skill? Unless you're including Toxikon but that's just basically a ruin 2 equivalent (but gauge based) so it's super super situational since it's the same potency as our filler? So is that big laser beam that comes with a heal (since it's the same potency as filler).... And another healer is getting a similar skill to that according to the unmentionable thing.. Seems to be as boring as the other healers o.o

It's more uh "dps focused", I guess? But not in a 'complex' way (maybe if we're referring to someone who mainly uses the basic GCD skills and isn't used to making use of their full toolkit?) . We have to use our DPS skills for the 'partner' heal thing and honestly because of that it looks like we're gonna be spamming 1 DPS skill more than the rest?

[Cyrocco]

And now astro gets a random heal or aoe dmg card every 60 seconds we’re I don’t have any consistency at all again. Need the heal in specific situations? Have a king lol. Wanting too get the perfect self buff from the seals every 90 seconds ? Have the same seal in a row lol. Want to redraw it ? Get the same seal again lol. Want to redraw again ? You can’t cause you can only redraw once per card. Why ? No clue maybe scholar needs too lose Energy drain again “shrug”

What...is this? This is kind of hot take on Astrologian gameplay is what really killed the class for me. The group that thinks like this wouldn't be happy unless Astrologian only had two cards, both of them instantly gave all three seals, and Redraw gave you the opposite card if you didn't pick the one you want.

I'm moving to Sage because this kind of thinking has become the mainstream and development direction and the charm of Astrologian has butchered.

[Sebazy]

In raw APM it's likely not going to be that different. It's positioning dependancy is an interesting twist though, sort of like the old Miasma II with the dot without the MP economy woes.

I don't think it's going to rival Shadow/Disc priests, but baby steps and all. If people rush to it and stick there then hopefully it'll send a bit of a message to SE.

[Mortex]

What...is this? This is kind of hot take on Astrologian gameplay is what really killed the class for me. The group that thinks like this wouldn't be happy unless Astrologian only had two cards, both of them instantly gave all three seals, and Redraw gave you the opposite card if you didn't pick the one you want.

I'm moving to Sage because this kind of thinking has become the mainstream and development direction and the charm of Astrologian has butchered.

Yes but the problem is square can’t make up there mind what they wanna do with astro they made random cards into seals changed sleeve draw for consistency reason and now they do a 180 out of nowhere to make the job again more inconsistent at some point it becomes ridiculous either make all rng or non but don’t change your fricking mind every 3 months only too have sleeve draw with 3 random cards only to change it too 1 card with the seal you missed and now too remove it entirely. And even I’m sure you had moments in stormblood and heavensward were you cursed bad random cards and if you actually I want more consistency then sorry to disappoint you but I rather take the old card system over the new any day but what annoys me is that astro flipp flops all over the Place between making it consistent or random and at some point you can’t see it anymore.

[Cyrocco]

Yes but the problem is square can’t make up there mind what they wanna do with astro they made random cards into seals changed sleeve draw for consistency reason and now they do a 180 out of nowhere to make the job again more inconsistent at some point it becomes ridiculous either make all rng or non but don’t change your fricking mind every 3 months only too have sleeve draw with 3 random cards only to change it too 1 card with the seal you missed and now too remove it entirely. And even I’m sure you had moments in stormblood and heavensward were you cursed bad random cards and if you actually I want more consistency then sorry to disappoint you but I rather take the old card system over the new any day but what annoys me is that astro flipp flops all over the Place between making it consistent or random and at some point you can’t see it anymore.

Absolutely everything has been a step towards less RNG.

Heavensward: 6 cards with 6 difference effects, and 3 different modifying effects. Shuffle works once and may return the same card.

Stormblood: Undraw abilities are added, Shuffle becomes Redraw and has charges. Now an Astrologian can drop whatever cards they want, which wasn't an option before, and can Redraw multiple times instead of once.

Shadowbringer: All the cards are changed to the single DPS effect we know now, now instead of having 18 different combinations of cards, with Expanded, Extended, and Enhanced Royal Road abilities, everything is a single target DPS buff. We go from 6 cards with 18 possible effects to essentially, one card with three possible effects (our seal system).

Endwalker: Further simplified in an unspecified way due to spoilers I can't expand on.

Yeah, I used to get bad draws on Astrologian, I also used to have fun on it.

Edit: I won't be responding further on this topic because this is a Sage thread and talking about how my baby was murdered is like- laaaaaaaaaame.

I think the Sage design benefits a lot just from having Eukrasia work as a modifier for abilities and core mechanic, and I really think if they stick to that design there's a lot of potential for future job growth and unique gameplay.

[QooEr]

Absolutely everything has been a step towards less RNG.

Heavensward: 6 cards with 6 difference effects, and 3 different modifying effects. Shuffle works once and may return the same card.

Stormblood: Undraw abilities are added, Shuffle becomes Redraw and has charges. Now an Astrologian can drop whatever cards they want, which wasn't an option before, and can Redraw multiple times instead of once.

Shadowbringer: All the cards are changed to the single DPS effect we know now, now instead of having 18 different combinations of cards, with Expanded, Extended, and Enhanced Royal Road abilities, everything is a single target DPS buff. We go from 6 cards with 18 possible effects to essentially, one card with three possible effects (our seal system).

Endwalker: Further simplified in an unspecified way due to spoilers I can't expand on.

Yeah, I used to get bad draws on Astrologian, I also used to have fun on it.

Edit: I won't be responding further on this topic because this is a Sage thread and talking about how my baby was murdered is like- laaaaaaaaaame.

I think the Sage design benefits a lot just from having Eukrasia work as a modifier for abilities and core mechanic, and I really think if they stick to that design there's a lot of potential for future job growth and unique gameplay.

Redraw being changed to guarantee a different card was a change done in heavensward. You also were able to "undraw" cards by using a macro /statusoff "spire drawn" etc. so you could in fact drop cards in hw. All stormblood did was add minor arcana to not fully get rid of the drawn card (and that added rng too).

There werent any charges in stormblood? charges were a shb thing. Shb was the one that wanted to reduce rng the most by making all the cards the same, and the differences for bad draws were so minimal it didnt really matter.

and now endwalker is taking back the rng mitigation from shb such as sleeve draw and the charges on redraw. and is now adding back rng damage with minor arcana and the new seal system. its effectively a step back from having less rng (which is fine imo, i dont play card games to always have the same cards)


but going back to sage...

I actually find sage to be kind of wasted potential. eucrasia only seems to affect three skills total, two of which won't even be worth using much without the eukrasia effect :/ but i wont talk about it more until the NDA is lifted

[ty_taurus]

Redraw being changed to guarantee a different card was a change done in heavensward. You also were able to "undraw" cards by using a macro /statusoff "spire drawn" etc. so you could in fact drop cards in hw. All stormblood did was add minor arcana to not fully get rid of the drawn card (and that added rng too).

There werent any charges in stormblood? charges were a shb thing. Shb was the one that wanted to reduce rng the most by making all the cards the same, and the differences for bad draws were so minimal it didnt really matter.

and now endwalker is taking back the rng mitigation from shb such as sleeve draw and the charges on redraw. and is now adding back rng damage with minor arcana and the new seal system. its effectively a step back from having less rng (which is fine imo, i dont play card games to always have the same cards)


but going back to sage...

I actually find sage to be kind of wasted potential. eucrasia only seems to affect three skills total, two of which won't even be worth using much without the eukrasia effect :/ but i wont talk about it more until the NDA is lifted

Well the fact that they have a "Cure" and "Medica" equivalent is something we know both from the live demonstration and also because they're literally the most basic healing move that every healer has (although Scholar actually doesn't have a Medica... Their only AoE GCD is Succor).

I do wish we saw more spells being augmented by Eukrasia from what we saw in the live demonstration. Some examples that come to mind would be your AoE Dyskrasia and possibly Toxikon which could theoretically give it more value. I'd want to see more healing get affected too, but the problem is Diagnosis and Prognosis are the only GCD heals outside of Pneuma unless there are secretly more. It's difficult to come up with alternative GCD heals because they either invalidate other forms of healing (Cure II invalidates Cure I, Cure III largely invalidates Medica, though not entirely), or they're things that Eukrasia is transforming our more basic heals into (Adloquium, Succor).

As you bring, up, there's also the issue of which is better. Currently, Diagnosis and Prognosis are probably never going to get used at all outside of a Sastasha roulette. In a way, those basic heals "need" to be there, though you could probably just have them upgrade to their barrier equivalents at level 30 an no one would probably bat an eye. What kind of heals or support do you add to the GCD that warrant use over DPS at times and that have a distinct value beyond the barriers provided by E. Diagnosis and E. Prognosis?

[QooEr]

I do wish we saw more spells being augmented by Eukrasia from what we saw in the live demonstration. Some examples that come to mind would be your AoE Dyskrasia and possibly Toxikon which could theoretically give it more value. I'd want to see more healing get affected too, but the problem is Diagnosis and Prognosis are the only GCD heals outside of Pneuma unless there are secretly more. It's difficult to come up with alternative GCD heals because they either invalidate other forms of healing (Cure II invalidates Cure I, Cure III largely invalidates Medica, though not entirely), or they're things that Eukrasia is transforming our more basic heals into (Adloquium, Succor).

As you bring, up, there's also the issue of which is better. Currently, Diagnosis and Prognosis are probably never going to get used at all outside of a Sastasha roulette. In a way, those basic heals "need" to be there, though you could probably just have them upgrade to their barrier equivalents at level 30 an no one would probably bat an eye. What kind of heals or support do you add to the GCD that warrant use over DPS at times and that have a distinct value beyond the barriers provided by E. Diagnosis and E. Prognosis?

just off the top of my head, from the tooltips we saw in the demonstration, addersgall skills like kera/tauro/ixo/druochole would be perfect targets for eukrasia imo. yes theyre ogcd, but they could be gcds with cooldown just like pneuma is. theres also physis and physis ii which could work with a bit of changes to their effects

as it is e. diagnosis is just plainly better than diagnosis, and prognosis will rarely ever see use because we have like 5 (?) other aoe heals

[ty_taurus]

just off the top of my head, from the tooltips we saw in the demonstration, addersgall skills like kera/tauro/ixo/druochole would be perfect targets for eukrasia imo. yes theyre ogcd, but they could be gcds with cooldown just like pneuma is. theres also physis and physis ii which could work with a bit of changes to their effects

as it is e. diagnosis is just plainly better than diagnosis, and prognosis will rarely ever see use because we have like 5 (?) other aoe heals

Seeing as we might be able to double the potency of a heal, I foresee E. Prognosis having a very valuable niche in high-end raiding actually. Imagine getting a doubly potent Succor off during savage prog, and while still having the chance to crit. Though we don't know if that will be the case for sure.