We could really do much with Sch- A Shb Sch rework

[WaxSw]

It's all about their willingness to give SCH the attention it needs.

That is one the biggest issues tbh, If what the devs said in the latest LL is true it seems there is none

[Anhra]

The thing with physick and ET is to make Sch a healer that without having to use ogcd heals can reliably heal doom like mechanics, thats why its a stance and there isnt a timer anywhere because you dont really know how much gcd heals you may need. The ideas you propose for physick and ET for example can make Sch struggle to heal living dead for example, on top of that, now that sch has shield in its ogcds actions ET would make sure you can get 100% of the heal from them, otherwise heals like lustrate would be meaningless to a target that has recived scholoton and the job would flow worse, at least in my opinion.

The Idea with Physick on this, is to make the SCH less reliant and limited on classic Healing abilities so that the focus on Shield Abilities would overall improve. As for Living Dead related issues, i think it would be a far better approach to rework Living Dead itself (maybe in a way where only a certain amount of HP needs to be healed in order for Walking Dead to get removed, like 50% HP) since alot of Players overall are dissatisfied with the Ability anyway. And even if SCH would overall struggle on such a situation, all it would take is to make Recitation work on Physick as well since my suggested Physick should have a good amount of Potency anyway (like 1200-1500 Potency, but keep in mind, with long cast time and 30sec CD, and it is the only pure Heal that doesnt require Aetherflow)

And really like the idea of Bane however idk if something like that is possible with the code this game has.

BLM's Thunder Spell already work in a similar fashion where the existing DoT is being consumed for damage, so i doubt there would be any Coding difficulties. Also, the Dev Team isnt a small Indie Companie, i am sure they would be able to figure things out even if it is a brand new idea.



Another Idea on Shields in general i had, is to make them work in a way, where they not only absorb a certain amount of Potency, but a certain amount of Hits as well (for Balance reasons). For example, Adlo could absorb a total amount (noncrit) of 10.000 Dmg or 3 hits, so even if a enemy does 3 auto attacks that deal less than 10.000 Dmg, the Shield would break down anyway. That way, Shielding in itself will never be truly overpowered or underperforming in any way, as long as it is deployed correctly.

[WaxSw]

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I gave you the living dead idea to put an example of common doom mechanic, something like TG in Orbonne or that simply forces AoE hp heal would put Sch at an insane disadvantage and with what you propose you would have to had 1st recitation ready, 2nd physick and 3rd emergency tactics just to have a chance to heal it, not mentioning how recitation even tough it works with gcd heals is used with aetherflow heals as its a dps gain, I think its an aproach too clunky when you consider SGE doesnt face those problems by default. What is keeping Sch now from using shields its not how many of hp/regens there are but how expensive shields are, we avoid gcds like a plague and 2/3 ways we have to give shields are gcd tied only 1 is not tied to any gcd and its under a 120s cooldown so thats why Sch doesnt shield that much and why at least in my rework the ogcd sourced of shielding are implemented

With the shields I'm more fond of the idea Gemina proposed of having returns from a shield breaking, reason being that when planning our heals we treat shields as part of the total potency of a heal (i.e for us a succor is 405 potency not 180) making a shield that can break after X amount of hits will mean that we have a variation factor that would make planning more weird and for mechanics that hit multiple times with weak hits basically using them would be waste.

Totally forgot about thunder 4 tbh and its something that would be fun to work with

[Anhra]

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I dont think even with the suggestions i made, SCH would have much trouble going through any Doom-like mechanics, since they are rather rare in the first place, and when it comes on a larger scale where the entire party can get hit, you have a co-healer on your side (who will always be a "pure healer" with the start of Endwanker) anyway.

but let us assume this happens in Orbonne and your co-healer is either a WHM or AST and ignore the fact that your co-healer is most likely more than capable of providing alot of raw healing on the AoE side, SCH still has (if we take both our ideas into consideration):

-AoE regen and heal that gives a +10% heal bonus
-the heal nuke from physick from my idea with estimated 1200-1500 Potency that will most likely, get one dps back to full HP in one go if it crits
-Indomitability which is if we leave it as it is, 400 potency aoe heal
-Fey gift with a 450 potency Heal
-Emergency Tactics turns one single Target Ability into a AoE (Physick)

That's in my Book at least, quite a good response to any Doom-like mechanic even on a larger scale, and if it doesnt work out, numbers can always be changed. Also, any GCD Shielding Ability can still be used as a backup as a "basic form of healing" if it gets really tough, but i doubt that it will be necessary. If i had any worries on this, its more that my suggested Physick idea would probably need a bigger cast time to balance it out more.


As for the Shield matter, keep in mind that Scholar has Shields on GCD and that fact alone, will make this matter on the smaller scale of things, hardly any different. The only big difference it would make, is that Shielding can't be used anymore to cheese Content for Players on a lower level than you, if anything and i doubt thats a serious concern to be considered. There is also rare Monsters with multi-attacks like the wild namazuos in yanxia (which have a 3 hit combo attack) which maybe, could break through your Shield with ease with weak attacks, but let's think again, are those critters, really a danger?

[Jirah]

I’m not well versed to disgust these as I’m not a SCH main but I love topics like these and I adore the title

[WaxSw]

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For the Physick, yes that could heal but once again you're dumping a lot of resources into one mechanic while other healers even in the same category (sage) dont need to, if that mechanic is planned yes you can deal with it but if its by surprise or because shit hits the fan (living dead) then Sch has no reliable way to tackle the situation while the other 3 have, also while emergency tactis could work to make a heal aoe, I dont think would fit well outside physick because in realistic terms out of all the heals only Excog and that Physick would benefit from that, all of the fairy heals are already AoE, 2 out of the 4 Aetherflow heals are Aoe and Lustrate and to some extend Adlo becoming AoE can be achieved by using deployment tactics, an emergency tactics that makes shields into heals in the scope of the rework I said would interact with 5 heals and its effect woudnt overlap with any other skill. There is also the thing of Physick being a gcd heal so probably woudnt see much use in the majority of content outside those niche scenarios and personally I think its better if Sch has niche skills in the ogcd kit more than the gcd kit (less oportunity cost).

For the Shields, I get you but what real purpose would that fill? At high end content if you're going to cheese is almost always 1 or 2 hits by stacking shields (look at E10s) so the 3 hit rule woudn't avoid it and when you're healing lower level players is almost always overworld contet so, Who cares if you cheese it? In fact I'd say its possitive for the whole "look how strong I can get in the future" from the newbie point of view, I simply see it as limiting the shield mechanic for the sake of limiting it.

[Grimoire-M]

I gave you the living dead idea to put an example of common doom mechanic, something like TG in Orbonne or that simply forces AoE hp heal would put Sch at an insane disadvantage and with what you propose you would have to had 1st recitation ready, 2nd physick and 3rd emergency tactics just to have a chance to heal it, not mentioning how recitation even tough it works with gcd heals is used with aetherflow heals as its a dps gain, I think its an aproach too clunky when you consider SGE doesnt face those problems by default. What is keeping Sch now from using shields its not how many of hp/regens there are but how expensive shields are, we avoid gcds like a plague and 2/3 ways we have to give shields are gcd tied only 1 is not tied to any gcd and its under a 120s cooldown so thats why Sch doesnt shield that much and why at least in my rework the ogcd sourced of shielding are implemented

With the shields I'm more fond of the idea Gemina proposed of having returns from a shield breaking, reason being that when planning our heals we treat shields as part of the total potency of a heal (i.e for us a succor is 405 potency not 180) making a shield that can break after X amount of hits will mean that we have a variation factor that would make planning more weird and for mechanics that hit multiple times with weak hits basically using them would be waste.

Totally forgot about thunder 4 tbh and its something that would be fun to work with

You can fully top the party for White Hole mechanics with the current scholar kit just fine if you’re prepared for it. I’ve done it for WoL consistently. Does it take a ton of resources? Yes, but it takes similar effort for any solo healer effort. Reci-Indom + ET Succor + Soil and/or Whispering Dawn with Excog on the main tank and a lustrate for the off tank. Sequence it properly and you’ll get Dissipation for that Succor and only need to use one GCD heal (sometimes I’ve had to use a second Lustrate).

Current Scholar has enough raw throughput for those mechanics. The minimum I’d want is charges on ET for extra consistency, even if it means that gets a cooldown nerf. It’s not my go-to ability for those situations but it certainly helps. If Indom got changed so it had more throughput when used in conjunction with Physick (Ex. Indom now shares a CD with Lustrate, but its potency goes down to 300 while Phyaick grants a buff that increases it and Lustrate’s potency by 40-50%) then you’d have an easier time with Living Dead and White Hole solo while still preferring the aid of another healer to some degree.

[WaxSw]

You can fully top the party for White Hole mechanics with the current scholar kit just fine if you’re prepared for it. I’ve done it for WoL consistently. Does it take a ton of resources? Yes, but it takes similar effort for any solo healer effort. Reci-Indom + ET Succor + Soil and/or Whispering Dawn with Excog on the main tank and a lustrate for the off tank. Sequence it properly and you’ll get Dissipation for that Succor and only need to use one GCD heal (sometimes I’ve had to use a second Lustrate).

Current Scholar has enough raw throughput for those mechanics. The minimum I’d want is charges on ET for extra consistency, even if it means that gets a cooldown nerf. It’s not my go-to ability for those situations but it certainly helps. If Indom got changed so it had more throughput when used in conjunction with Physick (Ex. Indom now shares a CD with Lustrate, but its potency goes down to 300 while Phyaick grants a buff that increases it and Lustrate’s potency by 40-50%) then you’d have an easier time with Living Dead and White Hole solo while still preferring the aid of another healer to some degree.

Yes as you said it, "If you're prepared for it" thats the problem I see with current Sch that for those mechanics you need to be prepared while the rest of the healers of the game doesnt have to, Ast/Whm is obvious why not but even if you look at SGE heals it can do it by gcds alone, obviously no one would heal those mechanics with gcds if they can use other tools but given the case I feel weird that the "shit's hit the fan" heals can't be reliable under those circunstances.

[Grimoire-M]

Yes as you said it, "If you're prepared for it" thats the problem I see with current Sch that for those mechanics you need to be prepared while the rest of the healers of the game doesnt have to, Ast/Whm is obvious why not but even if you look at SGE heals it can do it by gcds alone, obviously no one would heal those mechanics with gcds if they can use other tools but given the case I feel weird that the "shit's hit the fan" heals can't be reliable under those circunstances.

Personally I think we need healers to emulate SCH’s need for planning more, not less. WHM despite having Cure III can avoid casting it multiple times through the use of Assize, asylum, and PI. AST is nigh guaranteed to spam Helios if they mess up Star but still has Horoscope, CO/CU, and dignity for the tanks. I haven’t looked at Sage’s tool tips but I hear they have an empowered Medica II cooldown that stacks with another regen and they can ‘pop’ their shields in a manner akin to horoscope that should make them only require one GCD if any.

The only difference between them and SCH is 120-150 potency on their worst fallback option.

[WaxSw]

I actually agree on the planning, I think its key to the healers to effiencly plan their heals but at the same time since our mistakes can cause the deaths of other people on a concept level and other's mistakes can break our rotation/planning I feel we need to have some filler in case shit hits the fan and imo gcd heals fill that role, nothing major nor efficient but something that can get the basic of keeping alive people done to some degree (obviously not through high damage and such)