What's next for new jobs after Endwalker.

[TabrisOmbrelame]

...

You just put the finger on things I completely forgot/overlooked. And I really appreciated reading what's in your post.

You mentionned the "interview" with Yoshi P about new class. I saw it too recently, and nobody can say if the entirely new job creation will be for 7.0 or later. You said it right.

Even if I tried to make some "sense" for a geomancer, I'm not actually that interrested by the idea of the class itself. WHM, before Shadowbringer, was "kinda" the Geomancer, in a healer point of view, of course. What I fear about a Geomancer class could be a redundancy for spells if we take into consideration pre-70 WHM and the new spell that change on SMN when you summon Titan. And that's only if I don't take the lore into account. I re-checked the Astrologian story (In stormblood), and you are right, Geomancer are quite different to what the name indicate. If you take only the name, it obviously refer to a "Earth Mage". "gễ", which mean the Earth in greek, is where "Geomancer" find his root. This view on Geomancer is pretty common I guess, because i'm not the only one to do it, I saw many other do it too.

Moving on, the Onmyoji. I was wondering why SE started to "erase" DoT class, like Summoner for exemple. Your idea on a DoT-based Class can actually make sense. The Onmyoji is based on the Onmyōdō discipline, assembling the 5 Elements of the Wuxing and the Yin-Yang :

In those five, we can find Fire, Earth and Water (Elements that are mostly present in some Stormblood dungeon)
We also have Wood and Metal (Didn't know those were looked like elements, but that's what I find)
and we have Yin and Yang in it too, so maybe Light and Darkness ?

That's what the Onmyōdō is. Seems like a very complex discipline so getting an Onmyoji class out of this wouldn't be easy at the first glance, but there is definitely something to work with.

And on my poor job on the AST, I really feel like I mixed all my brush. I did some research after reading you on this part and everything you said is true, even if I don't know about "Time-Space Mage", I can't read japanese so...

But if we take "Time-space" into account only, AST have little ability related to that. Gravity and Horoscope seems to be "Space" magic, and I'm not counting all the "Celestial" spell. One thing still make me feel like AST isn't "completely" based on Time-mage. He has something to do with Malefic and Benefic... May that be a Yin-Yang relation to anything ? It's not based on Light or Darkness, it clearly based on the view of "Good and Evil". And also the Card itself make AST feel like a fortune teller. Of course, I think that almost anyone know on what Horoscope is based and fortune teller use that too.

If I take everything into account, it seems to be a mix between a Fortune teller and a "Time-space mage" (Like I said, I can't read Japanese, Can't tell if that's true or not, but I'll trust you on this one).

Honestly I won't bet on a Onmyoji right now. But a Caster will definitely come, I hope.

[Seraphor]

[on AST]

In most games, the JP versions literally call it 'Space-Time Magic'.

Time Magic (時空魔法, Jikū Mahō?, lit. Time and Space Magic), also known as Time, and Time Magick, is a recurring skill set and and type of Magic in the Final Fantasy series. It is a form of magic that bends the laws of time and space, and it is mainly a supportive school of magic, in contrast to Black Magic, which focuses on dealing damage, and White Magic, which focuses on healing.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Time_Magic


Included in Space-Time Magick are:
Teleport
Warp
Gravity/ja/ga
Float
Comet
Meteor
Immobilise
Disable
Vanish
Reflect

None of those are 'time' and more closely related to 'space'.

Meanwhile AST has:
Gravity (manipulation of spacetime)
Combust (animation is a shooting star, it's basically a mini comet)
Earthly Star (a literal star)
Macrocosmos/Microcosmos
Celestial Stasis
etc.

Plus a ton of Astrology terms:
Essential Dignity
Benefic and Malefic
Combust again
Synastry
Astrodyne
Exaltation

Astrology itself is fortune telling based on celestial bodies, fortune telling IS a form of time magic, you're predicting and/or altering the future, and celestial bodies are not only in space, but the movement of them enacting effects on the future is the interaction of space and time, physical movements altering time. Space-Time Magic.
I just don't understand why there's this prevailing idea that 'fortune teller' is somehow something entirely different. There's a very clear and obvious relationship there.


Lastly, here are some examples of Time Mages in the series:



And here are some Astrologians from FF14:

< this guy existed before HW

It seems pretty obvious to me that AST was always intended to emulate Time Mage, in fact I'd bet that before they decided to get rid of base classes, Astrologian was intended to be the base class to a later Time Mage job, in much the same way that Thaumaturge > BLM and Conjurer > WHM, Astrologian > TIM.

[Seraphor]

[on Onmyoji]

Onmyoji are already mentioned in the game in some offhand comments. (I forget where exactly) but in the same way that Geomancy is likened to being 'similar to Conjury', Onmyoji are similar to Thaumaturges. It's the same sort of relationship, with Geomancers being in some sense opposed to the Onmyoji and vice versa.
Ultimately however, the job is basically Mystic or Oracle with a different name, so there's still a sense there of it being a classic FF job in some ways.

Then there's also the Ascetics, yet another eastern mage class that Gosetsu becomes in the level 85-90 Physical Ranged job quests.

There's no shortage of eastern mages to draw from, one of them has to be our next caster.

[Tsiron]

...

Onmyoji show up as enemies in Bozja. Much like Seiryu, they summon all sorts of critters using paper talismans, which is a common visual in media featuring their kind.

Their next appearance was actually last year's Heavensturn, where our character even acts surprised to see them (I guess because they'd only been enemies up until now) and said NPCs go out of their way to specify that they're not all bad, essentially? The event itself consisted of fighting an illusory tiger of their creation...

Based on all that, their weapon(s) could very well be either paper talismans (steps on AST's toes a bit), a calligraphy brush, or both...?

[Renathras]

Though I’m all for a Geomancer caster and a Corsair scouting job, I would 100% prefer that they don’t add anything new and focus on fixing what we have in 7.0. I think everyone can agree jobs either feel way too similar, (healers, dark knight + warrior) way too simplified (summoner, tanks, healers) and/or way too different from what the “theme” of the job was supposed to be (sage, scholar)/ Plus I think we can all agree the leveling experience, in terms of when you gain skills, is way too slow. To the point of being downright boring.

I feel part of the problem in all of these discussions is...we DON'T all agree on all these things.

Though I DO think there's common ground. For example, I'm a healer main, tank secondary and...play DPS when I must. SMN is just right for me. I hate DoTs (every healer bloody has one... >_<) and random procs where I have to watch my bars for things to light up instead of watching the battlefield. SMN has none of that. It's straightforward, it does the Job, and it allows people to be functional on it.

Likewise, the issue with healers isn't Job design (except their dps kits all being basically identical other than their AOE and their "extra" like Assize and Plegma; Toxicon and Misery are sorta variations on a similar thing - instant cast AOE that has to have a condition met before use), it's that the encounters don't do damage that forces them to use their whole kits (or their GCDs) as their oGCDs are ample and powerful enough to deal with it all.

I do feel like there is an issue with homogenization in a lot of places, though PART of this is because of players demanding it. <_< It would be nice to see SOME of the PvP creativity brought to PvE.

.

Chemist as a Caster gun (SEE: Outlaw Star) healer with a Mix mechanic like NIN Mudras as its "every 20 sec" thing (Lilies, Aetherflow, Draw, Addersgall) would work. Green Mage (or possibly Time Mage) as a DoT Mage (if Time, also with the ability to stock and later release spells from time for bigger burst), and Geomancer as probably a melee that builds combo points it can use to instant cast more powerful Stone/Water/Aero spells all seem feasible to add to FFXIV.

.

EDIT: I will note I HIGHLY disagree that healing "feels better" in PvP. I hate when I have damaged team members and can't heal them because ALL OF MY HEALS ARE GATED BEHIND CHARGES. And the heals (other than WHM's) seem to hit like wet noodles, if that. SGE can't heal at all if there are no enemies close by to attack. So no, healing DOES NOT feel better in PvP. It's an interesting change, but I'd rather it not have the charge system on heals. I do like PvP SCH's Emergency Tactics (up often and useful offensively as well as defensively), though.

[Seraphor]

With everyone and their cats suggesting Necromancer, something did occur to me today that could make it a possibility.
(It actually came to me after seeing a comic where they suggested oil is million year old dead sea creatures so you could necromance a barrel of oil into a slime golem XD)

What if instead of summoning dead people, you summoned Ashkin, dead creatures with no souls.

Bogy


Bhoot


Spectre


Wraith


Plus Bone Hounds, Dragons, Diresaurs.

This would be a way of including Beastmaster and Necromancer, in a way in which it is neither, and thus free to alter the direction and mechanics of the job as they see fit.

It might still be too similar to Reaper though.

[SargeTheSeagull]

I feel part of the problem in all of these discussions is...we DON'T all agree on all these things.

Though I DO think there's common ground. For example, I'm a healer main, tank secondary and...play DPS when I must. SMN is just right for me. I hate DoTs (every healer bloody has one... >_<) and random procs where I have to watch my bars for things to light up instead of watching the battlefield. SMN has none of that. It's straightforward, it does the Job, and it allows people to be functional on it.

Likewise, the issue with healers isn't Job design (except their dps kits all being basically identical other than their AOE and their "extra" like Assize and Plegma; Toxicon and Misery are sorta variations on a similar thing - instant cast AOE that has to have a condition met before use), it's that the encounters don't do damage that forces them to use their whole kits (or their GCDs) as their oGCDs are ample and powerful enough to deal with it all.
.

The problem with summoner is that it went from being the most complex job in the game that focused on pet management (yeah the pet AI was clunky) and DoT upkeep to being so simple you can literally purple parse with a macro that plays the job for you. I would know, I've done it. And no, healer design is objectively bad and lazy. If you disagree, you simply don't know enough. Scholar and sage are, with the exception of five skills, completely identical. Ixochole and Indom are identical. Lustrate and Druochole are identical. Holos and Fey Blessing are functionally identical. Physis and whispering dawn are identical. Soteria and fey union are functionally identical. Addersgall is just less clunky aetherflow. Addersting is just more clunky ruin 2. Kardia is just a targeted embrace. Though I agree there isn't remotely enough incoming damage, the devs have said time and time again they won't increase how much damage enemies deal. Ergo, currently, it's a job design flaw. Part of it is that tanks' self sustain is absurdly powerful. Healers didn't used to be this bad. Back in stormblood and HW we had actual rotations. Scholar was the DoT job who had different fairies for what was going on. Astro's cards were actually fun, had varied effects and it had a ton of crowd control. White mage at least had fluid aura, cleric stance and aero 3. They are all objectively more boring, easier to play, and less fulfilling to improve on.

[Bloodthrone]

I hope one day we can get a Greatsword dps like Mystic Knight or Berserker.

[Renathras]

Beastmaster and Puppetmaster seem like ideal Limited Job candidates (Pokemon...gooooo!!), though a non-limited Job using a whip makes sense as there are only so many "ranged physical" weapons that make sense while also seeming distinct.

I also think Ranged and Caster are likely the next additional Jobs. For Caster, Time Mage, Green Mage, and in theory Geomancer are all options...even if everyone envisions GEO as a melee fighter, which would make it Melee (SAM and NIN are both melees that use some magic). Alternatively, I COULD see them adding another Scouting user, under the same argument for adding RPR to balance out DRG/Maiming, even though Melee DPS were already the most numerous Jobs in the game.

So Ranged (possibly whip user), Caster (Time Mage or Green Mage as DoT users, Geomancer as a melee/caster hybrid), or something using Scouting (Corsair? Swashbuckler?) would be my first thoughts.

Though we might guess better as we get closer to the expansion since they say they pick new Jobs on the themes of the expansion. SGE was 6.0 and 6.1, and I feel RPR, in addition to Zenos, will probably play into 6.2-6.5 Void content.

EDIT: I am curious on Pets and Dots, though, since they had Jobs (or A Job) that did that, and they removedit supposedly because the game code/systems don't work well with (a) lots of DoTs and (b) pets. Though maybe I'm misremembering that somehow.

[MonsutaMan]

So since we have reaper and it's enshroud form we could get morpher . I'd also take a magic twin pistol caster job

Morpher was in XI


Gambler was as-well.


Time Mage technically was.....
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Slow
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Haste
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Gravity

Mystic Knight was


Master was tied into a pretty neat series of quest.
https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki...und_the_Bushin

And you could summon a Chemist
https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Trust:_Monberaux

Reasons why XI is the FF G.O.A.T, and why I still play it, even while subbed to XIV.