A request for Endwalker Dungeons (No more Undertuned)

[Shougun]

The gear as another brought up is part of this, the first time through when people had min ilvl gear is much harder than now with max ilvl. And also that I believe is a key addressment of the new item level curve we're going to get, things are not going to get out of hand so quickly which will help challenge stay consistent and healers 'healing' stay an important facet longer (as before a high ilvl group requires less healing, leaving healer with less responsibility).

If Trusts can carry players who are in it for the story through dungeons there is def room for more difficulty and complexity in dungeon design and I hope the devs seize it.
It feels like a way to make everyone happy.

I think this is an interesting point... I'd especially love to see this point come to a tip if the progression of trusts was improved. By that I mean... you're right we could see dungeons become harder, and trusts would be a means for those, for whatever reason they may have, to avoid the higher pressure (keep similar completion time goals as they are now for trust and DF/PF respectively), and as for progression I just mean currently they have a progression that simply acts as a gate but has relatively no interest value (leveling them up doesn't make them go faster really, say unlike squadrons which is WELL worth the time if you're into that type of content). I'd love to see the trusts get their own progressions, they could share a merit sphere whatever system or they could have personal quests / what have you. But it would be nice to be able to develop them (and as they are now they'd be quite slow, but functional, yet progression would be actually meaningful ideally both through mechanical and story gameplay).

In a general statement, without creating massive destruction to certain concepts, I really enjoy the idea of allowing a huge variety of players to enjoy the content how they see fit. Say if trusts were instantly 200% faster than the best PF... then it would wreck DF and most of PF, that'd be horrible, but say I don't think squadrons destroyed DF, at least I feel lol, and they're more interesting to 'progress' mechanically than trusts, yet I Think there could be more fun in general, like maybe you can unlock different merits but only equip X, such that you might choose between an EPIC buff super useful in boss fights, or there might be this devastating aoe attack making trash packs melt, and then you'd have to choose between them (slightly akin to how Diablo 3 has companions).

[Shurrikhan]

All that does is make you stop halfway through the pull if you are undergeared. It's not like it makes you go gigabrain with CC or requires any skill whatsoever.

Make you stop halfway? No.

But it does oblige that, if you full-pull, that people actually keep up with the tank and actually burn things down before your healer and tank CDs deplete.

That's at least a step up from some dungeons since.

[Jirah]

Bold suggestion remove leveling trusts? Why is this a thing? Trusts are so far only for the incredibly lazy that want to be carried and the solo players. Why on earth would you make the lazy grind anything? They are lazy?

With that gone and the bigger enemies of improvement wiped out, go nuts with dungeons add everything hell, make it overturned! I miss keeping only 3 mobs cuz anymore would kill the tank rather than W2W where you span a aoe not caring about anything

[Shurrikhan]

Bold suggestion remove leveling trusts? Why is this a thing? Trusts are so far only for the incredibly lazy that want to be carried and the solo players. Why on earth would you make the lazy grind anything? They are lazy?

With that gone and the bigger enemies of improvement wiped out, go nuts with dungeons add everything hell, make it overturned! I miss keeping only 3 mobs cuz anymore would kill the tank rather than W2W where you span a aoe not caring about anything

Tbf, so long as no difficulty options are ever allowed for dungeons, Trusts are perhaps the only thing that'd let us have required dungeons experience above faceroll difficulty (or, really, in general, since there's always at least one dungeon in each tier required, and if one was incredibly quick and easy, even if boring, it'd be favored for roulette grinds over the more engaging but longer one(s) in its tier).

[HappyHubris]

I'd love to see more engaging 'trash mobs' but I feel boss difficulty is in a good place right now, all things considered.

I've encounter a fair amount of players who, even in Shadowbringer, still haven't figured out the basics like stack markers and tank CDs, along with some who don't have the reaction time to dodge mechanics (or perhaps can't be bothered).

To flip this around, players don't learn these things, because they literally never have to. If mechanics were less forgiving players would adapt.

[HappyHubris]

Mythic+ from WoW, while a cool concept initially, has evolved over the years into the single worst game-mode that I've ever seen, fostering one of the most toxic online communities and general mindsets. It's a big part of the reason why I finally left WoW. I dearly, dearly hope nothing of the sort is implemented here in FFXIV.

The critical issues I found with it:
- Focusing around timed runs further emphasized "GOGOGO", which isn't an open-ended form of gameplay a lot of players are interested in, so it begins limiting the amount of playerbase that gets into it
- Originally M+ offered the easiest means of gearing up, which annoyed the raiders so the reward structure started getting really wonky as the years progressed, requiring more work for less rewards, only really rewarding the people who played the game mode hardcore and becoming less and less casual-friendly
- Because of the changes in reward structure, really only rewarding those that push the further, the in-game gatekeeping got INSANE, which killed a lot of casual-access to the game mode, especially if anybody started a season late
- And then recently they started applying mount rewards for completing the major challenge-point, which was clearly an attempt to get more players to attempt it, but wound up resulting in the in-game community gatekeeping access even harder

I understand folks interest in having harder game content to play, but if rewards are involved in any way, shape, or form, then it's going to devolve quickly into unpleasantness for a lot of the playerbase, which so far as I know SE is actively attempting to avoid.

Just because a tier of content has rewards, it doesn't mean that every player needs to acquire that reward. It's OK to put out a skin or mount that many players cannot get. Indeed, many players just can't complete the tougher modes of the current raids, and they don't get the same cosmetic rewards. It's a pain for someone that joins an expansion off-cycle and has a tough time "breaking into" the content, but why kill an idea entirely based on that edge case?

[Aiscence]

People only know how to talk in extremes. It's a plague in modern society. Everywhere I turn it seems these forums are just full of complaints.

However the vocal minority get more attention than the silent majority.

Give yourselves handicaps. There are ways to make the game harder without putting it all on the devs who are trying to be inclusive. People can feel how they want but need to keep the game accessible to the majority and not just individuals.

If you aren't having fun, find another game.

I've seen people not wear their job stone and still have 10 to 20% more dps than anyone else in their party, or people getting more dps than half the dps of alliance roulette just by pressing "1", the level is not low, it's literally burried.

Humans tend to not evolve and stay in their comfort zone unless they meet a wall that make them learn to pass it, the risk is that now with people being too used to be mouth feed everything, they will leave because "the game is mean and forced me to do a mechanic while I press my buttons". Game is growing for years, and it was already the case when it was harder.

[DPZ2]

To flip this around, players don't learn these things, because they literally never have to. If mechanics were less forgiving players would adapt.

Or leave the game in droves.

[Deliciou5]

Or leave the game in droves.

What makes you think they wouldn't adapt to the learning curve?

[DPZ2]

What makes you think they wouldn't adapt to the learning curve?

Experience with a number of MMOs and their predecessors over the last 35 years.

Anecdotal knowledge of the reasons in-game friends play (and struggle) with the game.

Memories of all of the massive threads about the large number of players who need to 'git gud' in these forums (most written with a "why don't they just leave, already?" attitude)