A request for Endwalker Dungeons (No more Undertuned)

[Xirean]

I'd love to see more engaging 'trash mobs' but I feel boss difficulty is in a good place right now, all things considered.

Most of those special mobs in my experience just get blasted or stunned to oblivion. Good example are the lava slimes in Sahm Ahl Hard. If there is something special, the group does everything it can to remove that special. WHM are particularly good at this with Holy. I honestly don't know if there are any special mobs in ShB mostly because of Holy.

It makes me sad to see that new players sometimes don't even get to see half of the boss mechanics anymore.

This I fully agree with. I don't care at all about the mobs, but the bosses I wish could live longer to actually do their cool thing. Maybe make the max item level lower or perhaps the stat squish will take care of it?

[ForteNightshade]

It's because of your gear. It's designed for item level 470 and it's easy to be 510-530 now. Consider that at the time of release, the max item level was just increasing from 500 to 530 so casual players that don't understand tomestones were still in 475 gear from the previous dungeon.

The leveling dungeons will most likely hurt a lot like the previous ones because of gear sync but I expect the max level ones will be easy like the one you mentioned because of the sync not being tight.

The fun I get out of them is in completing them faster and skipping even more of the mechanics.

Warrior and Paladin have solo Paglth'an. That's how massively undertuned they are. Even at min ilvl, dungeons have been laughably and embarrassing undertuned lately.

[Chawan]

Remember in THIS game rpg comes first. So long as dungeons are tied to story and are mandatory for story progression, it probably won’t happen.. personally i am just fine with that. I like games to be more laid back. I don’t join anything passed hard mode because things get annoying at that point.. And even then I don’t often do hard dungeons unless it is an unlock, so usually I only play it maybe twice if a friend wants to unlock and wants a fast que. You want difficulty play extremes. There are difficulty levels for a reason I imagine.

Of course they could make things like squadrons more easily accessible, co-opable, and make those npc players level faster with less time and effort so that they can be used almost from the get go and for all dungeons .. make those dungeons the easier ones and scale up difficulty for dungeons with real people.. tho this might have a negative effect for que times.

[Roda]

Counterpoint. Dungeons are mandatory, and if you want your mandatory content to be the main content representing your game, you don't want it to be repetitive and dull. And after 8 years worth of dungeon content, the pretty reskins of the same dungeon format has gotten stale as hell.

"Interesting" doesn't have to mean "difficult." It just means shake up the format a little.

I would be much less likely to expect speedruns in my dungeons if getting the dungeon over with as fast as possible wasn't the most interesting interaction I could do with the instance.

[Jeeqbit]

Warrior and Paladin have solo Paglth'an. That's how massively undertuned they are. Even at min ilvl, dungeons have been laughably and embarrassing undertuned lately.

Dungeons are for people who only play for the story and only have the gear they picked up in the last dungeon, so they are never going to present much threat to those of us who play regularly, gear properly and do rotations correctly. The best fun we can get out of them is doing them faster, skipping more things and maybe even soloing.

[ForteNightshade]

Dungeons are for people who only play for the story and only have the gear they picked up in the last dungeon, so they are never going to present much threat to those of us who play regularly, gear properly and do rotations correctly. The best fun we can get out of them is doing them faster, skipping more things and maybe even soloing.

I'm well aware. Just because they're story focused doesn't preclude them from having some measure of teeth. No one is asking for Extreme or Savage level difficulty here but for mobs to require more than a pulse. When a tank can entirely solo a dungeon meant for four players, it's utterly ridiculous. As Roda pointed out, it reduces these story dungeons to slogs people blitz through. Incidentally, it's that entire lack of bite that has pretty much standardized wall-to-wall pulls. If mobs somewhat threatening, you'd have a more reasonable argument not to pull everything.

And I sincerely doubt dungeons were ever designed to be soloed. Not upon release at the very least.

[FoxyAreku]

Every dungeon in this game is undertuned, and they've gone through the effort to nerf these undertuned dungeons even further. I wouldn't hold my breath for any dungeon to have complexity, especially since they have to be easy enough for bots to carry you through now.

[Mindiori]

Why does [I like story] equate to [I'm too stupid to hold a controller]? That's simply not true. Casual also doesn't mean brain-dead and yet SE pretends it does. And it always baffles me how complacent the community has gotten. Like it's unheard of for games to have difficulty settings.

Because they are literally that stupid. Just look at the speed 'no' arrives. There is no reason why any achievement should be overly easy or it means nothing. Casual indeed should have remained time invested, not the amount of IQ points.

These people struggle with a single button at best. The trouble is that catering to it, besides increasing profits due to the increasing number of the population who are lazy looking for instant gratification - has exponentially worsened the issue. They are correct, we aren't the target market anymore. Yet what is the point of beginning something so brainless that its attainment is devoid of any meaning? Eventually the only people gaming will be streamers and those who think Scholars one button festival is skillful play.

No not everyone is equal. But improvement requires a collective standard of difficultly to be established. You are effectively gimping yourself and your potential ceiling - no matter your ability; by reducing a game to something barely fit for the lowest common denominator. If the so called 'casuals' believed in compromise, beyond 'hurr durr you get your 1% of difficult content now stfu and leave me to my 99%' things might be different. Instead the ''elitism'' they talk about; stems from a jaded community. Who have conceded far too much of their fun to imbeciles.

[Shironeko_Narunyan]

What you see here on the forum, and what you see in the game, are two completely different worlds.
You'd think, reading these forums, that everyone playing this game is extremely skilled, and the dungeons are too easy.
Then you log into the game, do a roulette, and the tank doesn't know what a cooldown is, the healer hard-casts Cure I, and the DPS stand in the bad.

Dungeons are part of the story, and as long as that's the case, they can't be harder.
For balance, not the extremely skilled elite, made up of forum posters, but the actual player community in game is relevant.

[Lexis]

Everyone having their own definition of 'challenging' makes these discussions all the more difficult to nail down.

I consider myself an average player and while trash mobs present no challenge, bosses sometimes leave me struggling (but ultimately succeeding, sometimes one the second try after an embarassing death). That seems like a pretty good challenge line to me: not too difficult that the average player gets overwhelmed, but challenging enough that it's still fun.

If your skill is such that these bosses offer no challenge whatsoever and you can't remember the last time you messed up a mechanic, good on you and I'm sure you're killing it in savage and Ultimate raids, but I don't think that's where the challenge line for normal dungeons should be, least FFXIV suffer the same fate as Wildstar (I absolutely adored that game, so sad to see it gone )