Thread: Is anyone else concerned about 6.0 Summoner?

Originally Posted by Mindiori

Whatever comes, people seem to be stuck in a sort of denial about complexity/simplification et al. The days where any job was 'fun' for those with a brain installed is long gone. Many a deflective argument was raised about 'instance difficulty being increased'. 'Less watching the hotbars and more active environmental demands'. And I could only laugh at the mental gymnastics involved. Not only does the engine, team and so on not have it in them for that style of design change - the masses are casual and complain even if jobs are mashing one button.

The future is here and it certainly isn't one of entertaining gameplay. Certainly, I expect those used to some sort of single rotation engagement in their gaming will disagree. Yet there is a divergence of opinion when placed with veterans vs that crowd. When you grow up with gameplay that has a certain player growth, depth and expectation - and see it watered down to babies first mmo; as was the case with wow; there is solid reasoning as to why some are annoyed.

Instead we have point the finger games. Hyperbole in numerous directions. If you think the current jobs are engaging then (personally) I think you're insane. They are flashy - but spamming a single DPS skill on a healer; when past MMO's had entire rotation bars worth, is nothing short of chuckle worthy. People are consistently intellectually dishonest. I assume to placate their lack of skill and enjoyment at brainless activities.

When a group of people start to tell you 'you've got one percent of content to enjoy if you want a challenge' - and then insert some 'elitist' insult; it basically becomes battle of the bigot. An utter waste of time for all. So there will be no compromise, because there can't be.

If pretty looking one button classes/jobs draws the money - that's all they care about. You are blowing nothing but smoke comparatively. Sad but I struggle to stay mentally engaged with most of the jobs. I hope that the rest of you don't find yourself in that position in time. Genuinely so. As it isn't 'fun'. At least not for me. Fortunately other aspects of the game can tide me over till something else draws me away.

Now companies cater to these people since there is more of them and less of those "Comic book guy type of nerds".

https://c.tenor.com/mktg_FDqsPEAAAAd/npc-brainlet.gif

Which is sad. And whenever new niche game appears and it gets 2nd or 3rd instalment they throw the old fans away and choose the people above

I swear the ego of the average poster is comically disproportionate. You guys litteraly start to sound like caricatures of yourselves.

Originally Posted by Nyarlha

I swear the ego of the average poster is comically disproportionate. You guys litteraly start to sound like caricatures of yourselves.

Referring to what exactly?

Originally Posted by Jirah

Referring to what exactly?

"Muh job complexity has been ruined by the filthy casuals" in tantrum mode for the past few days.

Originally Posted by Eloah

it would of been

I stopped taking this thread seriously after this. Is it too much to ask that you use proper word usage in your threads?

I don't ask for perfection, but this one really grinds my gears. You're not even trying at that point.

The community that has been playing summoner for years are either affliction warlocks or diehard fans of the class that have begrudgingly put up with its convoluted design in the hope it would someday get better. The tooltips that were shown in the LL have already been translated and made the rounds on twitter earlier today, and in my opinion it is going to play like a very mobile and fun job now that it has been simplified. As I've stated previously, if your fun came from managing dots and would rather have that than the ability to summon primals and use their most powerful abilities-then summoner was never your class to begin with and we should not seek to bring back any part of that failed design.

Originally Posted by CKNovel

They're right to be concerned.
Job being accessible is good and no one is saying otherwise.
But Jobs shouldn't be designed for players that will try the job a month and move on the next shining thing.
It should be designed for players that intend to stay on this job.

MCH got a bland rework, it was fun to discover but quickly enough the job had no interest, it was simply bland.

SMN rework is good because it get rids of all the crappy stuff. But the community that has been playing Summoner for years is fearing that the job will not be fun anymore.
Cool visuals against gameplay, the trade is simply not worth when you actually play the job.

I played SMN since ARR launch and MCH since HW launch and I disagree with you.

I liked SMN DoTs and the mechanics associated with them despite thinking it didn't really mesh well with the concept but I'm glad to see them gone in favor of a better direction. And I thought HW MCH and SB MCH were a giant mess, despite sticking to them for some time. The RNG rotation didn't feel fun and while the heat mechanic added complexity, it was clunky and badly made. That plus the fact that wildfire depended on your ping more than anything else. I like the new MCH a lot more and mained it more than any other job in ShB. They took inspiration from FFVI MCH and gave it some new toys. The new rotation did leave a lot to be desired though and I really hope EW will fill it in better.

But just like my own, your opinions aren't universal and you don't speak for everyone so don't act like you're the voice of the "SMN Community". That's what they were talking about in their earlier post.

It's WAY too early to get upset about the changes right now. When we find out what the actual rotation involves, then we can ask SE WTF they're doing if it's a giant mess. But even then, not everyone's going to agree on that and no one should pretend that their view is shared with everyone.

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I played SMN since ARR launch and MCH since HW launch and I disagree with you.

I liked SMN DoTs and the mechanics associated with them despite thinking it didn't really mesh well with the concept but I'm glad to see them gone in favor of a better direction. And I thought HW MCH and SB MCH were a giant mess, despite sticking to them for some time. The RNG rotation didn't feel fun and while the heat mechanic added complexity, it was clunky and badly made. That plus the fact that wildfire depended on your ping more than anything else. I like the new MCH a lot more and mained it more than any other job in ShB. They took inspiration from FFVI MCH and gave it some new toys. The new rotation did leave a lot to be desired though and I really hope EW will fill it in better.

Ooboy.

Originally Posted by CKNovel

SMN rework is good because it get rids of all the crappy stuff.

Does it looks like I disagree?
I'm pretty sure you can ask anyone that lurks in the topic I participate the most, I'm one fervant defender of MCH rework.
I initially thought the MCH rework would be a ground to be expanded upon in EW. They did nothing of that.

And that's the problem, SQEX is going to deliver a rework that may feel like a base to be expanded upon.
Now it's summoner, they may actually do that because it's a favorite among the developpers and at this point it's obvious there is favoritism.

Obviously it's early to complain, better wait the media tour. But when the 6.0 release, it's set for another 2 years.

Originally Posted by Nyarlha

"Muh job complexity has been ruined by the filthy casuals" in tantrum mode for the past few days.

I'm a filthy casual and am apprehensive about the SMN changes which is the job I've played since first joining the game. I've tried other jobs none have really appealed to me and I dropped them pretty quickly. I'm sure I'm not the only player in this situation.

One of the reasons I picked SMN was the job had a number of options I could use to fill gaps between CD's other than spamming Ruin nonstop. I also like how the job was pretty strong in the area of AoE damage. All of this combined allowed a rotation, while long, that could maximize availability of skills where I rarely had to waste a high damage skill due to poor timing. I like the idea of the new primal summoning skills. What I don't know is how well they will weave with the Trances or what the DPS loss will be if I don't have a perfectly timed rotation. Potential DPS loss is a big one given that the new SMN rotation still appears to be a long one so we are talking recovery times in minutes not a cycle or two of the GCD. Also with what little information has been presented about the changes it appears to be a simplification without making adjustments to reduce the rotation time that use to be filled by off CD skills. The result is we will be left with Ruin as our go to skill to fill the long gaps between Trances which I would not find fun to do.