Thread: Is anyone else concerned about 6.0 Summoner?

Originally Posted by Roda

You're not the only one thinking of this, they said they'd include something for the primal summon sizes.

They didn't just say it. Yoshi's Summons (And Demi Summons) were much smaller than in the trailer. Unclear if they are sized separately (I Feel Bahamut should be bigger than the other summons, Demi or not).

Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

They didn't just say it. Yoshi's Summons (And Demi Summons) were much smaller than in the trailer. Unclear if they are sized separately (I Feel Bahamut should be bigger than the other summons, Demi or not).

Oh okay, that is reassuring then. I only watched the jobtrailer and didn't have time to watch the rest of the liveletter yet. If they give us that option, I guess I didn't have to be concerned in the first place.

Originally Posted by ChazNatlo

They didn't just say it. Yoshi's Summons (And Demi Summons) were much smaller than in the trailer. Unclear if they are sized separately (I Feel Bahamut should be bigger than the other summons, Demi or not).

"I set [Titan's] size to be small"

Edit: Misread your post to say "they didn't say it" oops.

I'm tired of the weak arguments of Summoner was never this in other FF games. Maybe you should go back and play all the titles again because clearly you didn't even know what Summoner was through the many titles.

FFI and II didn't have summoner
FFIII had Sumoner; a Mage job that would cast magical beast either provided offense or defense effects.
FFIV was a Black Mage / Summoner Hybrid so yea, Rydia could cast poison, bio, and virus.
FFV Summoner; a Mage job that would cast magical beast either provided offense or defense effects. On top of that players could subjob BLM, RDM, WHM
FFVI through FFVIII; players equipped summons to learn spells and abilites
FFIX, FFX, FFXI; Summoner was a White Mage / Summoner Hybird
FFXI, FFXII & FFXIII; Summons were pet like

So surprise, Summoner comes in all shapes and sizes. FFXIV was all about management, might be why they had books as weapons.... You had to manage your MP, your Aetherflow, your Pets, your DoTs, what targets to attack. Slowly SE's brilliance has chipped away at concepts many SMN mains enjoyed. I wonder if all the people who say they welcome these changes are also going to the ones to drop the job they currently play and main Summoner 6.0.

Originally Posted by zcrash970

What's funny is Rydia can do more dps with black magic than her summons

Seriously. Bio has a cast time of 0 and a potency of 128 in the 2D versions of Final Fantasy IV. It comes out practically the moment you start casting it, and hits harder than -a spells and most Summons available at the same level, with only Titan coming out ahead. And much later in the game, once you have access to Flare (0 casting time, 400 potency), it's considerably faster to throw out than the strongest available summon, Bahamut (3 casting time, 480 potency). To say nothing of the horribly overpriced and overrated Meteor (10 casting time, 800 potency).

It's only in the 3D versions of FFIV that Bio loses its luster, with its potency being slashed down to 40. But that game nerfed practically all of Rydia's kit, with most if not all of the mid-to-late summons having a cast time of 6-10.

I don't think we need new primals, it would just be nice to have as a bonus. I also don't think we won't see new ones in the future, it's probably going to have to wait for the new stuff to get in and further balanced. If not, it would be a rather disappointing thing for Summoners to only have the same set for the rest of the game.

Originally Posted by Rhyagelle

I don't think we need new primals, it would just be nice to have as a bonus. I also don't think we won't see new ones in the future, it's probably going to have to wait for the new stuff to get in and further balanced. If not, it would be a rather disappointing thing for Summoners to only have the same set for the rest of the game.

Exactly. This not only brings SMN much more in line with the traditional concept of Summoner" from the series history but also opens a rather easy path for upgrading SMN in the future. All they will need to do in, say, 7.0 is give us a new primal to summon. It could also open interesting strategic options where maybe you'll only ever be able to summon 3 primals between Bahamut and Phoenix and you'll have to choose the best 3 depending on the situation and the fight you're doing.

* And yes, to those who have found reason to complain, Summoner has changed a bit over the course of the series in actual mechanics, but if you were to ask any long time fan of the series what a Summoner was they would tell you it's a class that can summon primals/eikons/etc. The new FF14 Summoner is much, much more in line with the traditional known and accepted concept of Summoner than the previous version was.

Originally Posted by Dyvid

I'm tired of the weak arguments of Summoner was never this in other FF games. Maybe you should go back and play all the titles again because clearly you didn't even know what Summoner was through the many titles.

So surprise, Summoner comes in all shapes and sizes. FFXIV was all about management, might be why they had books as weapons.... You had to manage your MP, your Aetherflow, your Pets, your DoTs, what targets to attack. Slowly SE's brilliance has chipped away at concepts many SMN mains enjoyed. I wonder if all the people who say they welcome these changes are also going to the ones to drop the job they currently play and main Summoner 6.0.

"Summoner" in games where you did more than summon was "Summoner" mixed with something else. When you take something and mix it with something else, it doesn't mean that all the elements of the thing that is added are immediately applied to the other part of it for future incarnations of the original as well. Just because Rydia could cast black magic doesn't mean that all summoners should and that it's a vital part of their identity. Just like how blue magic is not a part of the core identity of dragoons, chemists are not a part of the core identity of thieves, and archery is not a part of the core identity of bard.

You could argue that if they decided to cast away classes and bard was made its own thing separate from bows and archery and ranger was made a separate thing, there would be rejoicing. I'm pretty sure there's been many threads asking for just that.

Unless they have an interview where they specifically go into the why, it's up to guesswork for why they're making SMN like this. But it's not like it's coming out of nowhere either. Yoshi-P has said in past interviews that balancing pet classes is a nightmare and we've seen the pets for SMN, SCH, and MCH dialed back and back every expansion. The hotbar and rotations for SMN have also ended up getting bloated as more and more is tacked onto the end without being woven in, like how it usually is for the other jobs. After adding another stance on top of it all, they really needed to go back and take another look at the job to see what they want to do with it and what it should be.

I played SMN since ARR and while casting all the DoTs (including lightning when we could), and then spreading them and blowing them up was fun back then, I can see where right now SMN has two separate and conflicting concepts and they needed to go back to the drawing board. Even as a past SMN main who liked the old days, losing DoTs does not feel as bad as when they took time spells away from AST. Trading off the DoTs, which I always thought was kind of weird to be on a summoner, for a different yet hopefully complex rotation that revolves around the existing trances and demi summons might be a nice and refreshing change.

But ultimately all we have on how future SMN will work is 1 video so I think we can hold off on the gloom and doom. At least until media tour comes around and we actually know the full scope of what's happening. And yes, I'm going to abandon my current main to go back to SMN when 6.0 drops.

I'll decide and voice my opinion about Summoner once I got to play all the new additions and changes.
All this prediction and assuming is just pure nonsense, imo. They even stated all jobs are subject to change - and at most - you guys should at least be patient for the official job guide, which shouldn't be far away.

Just because they change a job, doesnt mean every player has to MAIN it. Everyone had to be a Machinist by now, after how many reworks?