Thread: Is anyone else concerned about 6.0 Summoner?

Originally Posted by PoLaD

Rydia from FF4 had Bio, as well as Poison, as part of her skillset. Egi Assaults could be scene as the equivalent of say, ordering Anima to use Pain in FF10 or using your ATB to order Leviathan to use Briny Bellow in the FF7R for a more recent example.

Rydia was a black mage/summoner hybrid and that's why she had bio. You missed my whole point about the job system and true summoners for a "gotcha moment". It's like saying that dragoon needs white wind or self-destruct because Kimhari was a dragoon/blue mage hybrid and he had those spells.

I also didn't say that egi assault didn't have an equivalent, I said that it's not a loss. At least to me, weaving those assaults in my rotation isn't compelling gameplay, it's just frustrating.

Originally Posted by PoLaD

Yes, because we all know the dev team only changes things that the majority want. That's why at the beginning of the Live Letter, when they told us that they know a lot of us want to go back to say, 3.0 job complexity, they said they would. That they wouldn't instead double down on the more controversial 5.0 changes. Oh wait.

They just don't know what to do with SMN, just like SCH. Which I already realized back at the beginning of StB when they decided that we didn't need Sustain anymore. Or when SCH lost Energy Drain. Or why our Pet AI keeps getting worse.

Of course a lot of people are happy. Most of them are loving the animations. Which while nice, doesn't really matter to me, as I have them turned of most of the time to help things run better, and the the novelty of them will eventually wear off.

Fun is subjective. For me, and presumably some that main the class as well, the fun in SMN comes from everything I'm managing. Which all seems to be lacking based on the Demo. Did you see the hotbar during it? There was pretty much nothing there, and you have to keep in mind that was the at level 90. They mentioned that only 1 abilty/spell wasn't there, so that is pretty much it. How heck does this class work from 1-80, where a majority of the content for this game is going to be, especially at launch when we're going to have only a couple of things at 90? Why do we have so many insta cast spells when there doesn't appear to be much to weave, with Energy Drain now being on a 60 second cooldown. What is there to keep track of? With them taking DoTs, it seems to be our Gem summons, but... that so basic. Why was Carbuncle just sitting there looking pretty? Why does it seem like we're only going to be spamming Ruin 3 and Outburst, getting new coats of paint on them during trances? Why does it seem like they only listened to people who didn't like the way the job is and had alternatives to play if that was the case, but not the people who enjoyed it for what it was and will now have nothing to fill the void old SMN will leave?

To answer your question op, yes. I am very, very concerned about SMNs new direction.

They can easily look at what classes people enjoy what works and see what does not. Your feedback for a complex class is not what most of the player base wants. So the developers pick to run over your enjoyment to design a class that more players will enjoy.


That is the nature of a video game that is also a service. Things going to change. It happens to many classes I have played in mmorpgs over the years, and I'm use to it.


The thing is, not enough of people like you who enjoys complex classes, This is not what the game is about. Having both complex classes+complex fights=not fun for most players who play this game. Having simple but fun flashy classes with content that can be complex as optional is what the developers want to do.

I understand that there are people who like SMN as it currently is. As others have stated it is impossible to make everyone happy. That said those upset about these changes need to understand that they address the two biggest complaints SMN has had for awhile. The first one is a complaint that it has had since ARR. That it didn't feel like a real summoner, that it was just a pet class and honestly has been compared to affliction warlock from WoW more often than it has been compared to Summoner from any of the other FF titles. As such, these changes bring it inline to give it the visual appearance of being a true Summoner which, as others have pointed out, call a summon out for one massive attack and then it vanishes. That is how FF summoning works.

The other large complaint about SMN started with HW and only increased with SB and ShB. That is the fact that SMN has the most punishing rotation out of all the casters and yet is not the strongest of the casters. Due to its long burst build up and the myriad of things to focus on it is extremely easy to mess it up and shoot yourself in the foot. We're all human, we make mistakes. But with most classes a single mistake can easily be recovered, with SMN you've pretty much screwed your dps for the entire fight unless it is a really long one. In addition dying as a SMN is far more punishing than any other class, since you not only have to resummon your pet but you also have to start the long arduous process of ramp up all over again. From the looks of it, these changes fix that. Granted we won't know more until the media tour and the embargo lift next month.

Summoner felt like it was in a weird spot because it was built off of arcanist. Which is even weirder because I believe arcanist was added at the same time wasn't it?

The poison spells I think make sense for a strategic caster, weakening an enemy with disease etc, while commanding a carbuncle pet.

But the smn/sch split was always kind of weird. Role wise, arcanist is dps and summoner feels like it ought to be the main branch from that, also being dps. But the studious, strategic part went more into scholar flavor wise where a lot of those elements fit better. But scholar is healer and a bigger departure gameplay wise because of it from arcanist. Summoner carries over the gameplay more directly as a dps but SCH really feels like the direct continuation in therms of thematics, continuing the tactician angle into the scholar quests.

Early summoner felt like it was built off of a collection of disparate ideas. It was the summon/pet job. But also had remnants of the arcanist 'smart book mage/wizard' type. And also just kind of got the bio stuff by default because black mage was too full to have all its ice/fire/lightning stuff AND poison stuff too.

Over time it's been shedding a lot of that stuff to move more toward a full on summoner. With demi bahamut and phoenix, lowering aetherflow to two charges, now dropping its dots etc.

On the one hand, I'm glad summoner fans are getting something more in line with what you'd expect from a summoner. On the other hand, I miss HW summoner and enjoy the job less and less the more 'summoner' it actually becomes as it sheds the leftover arcanist stuff.

Summoner looks awesome. I know that we're here to complain about it, but the hype is real ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yes..it looks awesome but is it gonna play awesome? That is the concern that all of us SMN mains have. I was excited until I saw how small that hot bar looked during the demonstration. I fell in love with the job because of how complex it was. It because of this I didn’t even feel like I was doing a rotation and could change it on the fly alongside the fight changes. The instant cast spells might, ironically, be even more unforgiving if we can’t decide when to use the different phases/stances for ourselves. I rather we have interactive pets instead of a pretty animation, especially if it means the job becoming boring as hell all for the sake of nostalgia.

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Rydia having access to Bio is one of the weakest arguments for poison mage SMN that I’ve seen thus far. Anyone who has played FFIV knows that given the opportunity to choose between that and an actual summoning spell, its always better to use a summon. This “unique” summoner some are talking about was garbage in both its aesthetic and its gameplay.

If you’re getting your dopamine rush from...casting poisons as opposed to literally being able to call down Bahamut, Phoenix, and the new full sized Ifrit/Garuda/Titan then you are not who summoner is supposed to appeal to. The poisons were pointless and the egis looked like trash. No seriously, you could crumple up a piece of paper and end up with something that resembles an egi quite easily.

If you’re seriously asking for 3.0 job gameplay then I can only assume you did not play 3.0. Luckily, bow mages and other disastrous job designs are gone for good. I cannot speak for poison mages but for me the novelty of dancer never wore off. It’s still my go to because it nails the job fantasy in terms of its animations and gameplay. It’s extremely easy to find other dancers out in the wild who for the most part love their job.

Now that summoner has been wrested back from the affliction warlocks, just like they’ve told us for the past 8 years to go play another class, the tables have now turned on them. Go play bard, blue mage, or anything really. Summoner must never go back to what it used to be.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I hope they build off this new iteration of summoner for future expansions.

Originally Posted by AngeliouxRein

Yes..it looks awesome but is it gonna play awesome? That is the concern that all of us SMN mains have. I was excited until I saw how small that hot bar looked during the demonstration. I fell in love with the job because of how complex it was. It because of this I didn’t even feel like I was doing a rotation and could change it on the fly alongside the fight changes. The instant cast spells might, ironically, be even more unforgiving if we can’t decide when to use the different phases/stances for ourselves. I rather we have interactive pets instead of a pretty animation, especially if it means the job becoming boring as hell all for the sake of nostalgia.

Yeah parts of a fight where bosses go untargettable are going to be infuriating.

And while the current smn rotation is just as concrete, you have more moment-by-moment decisions going on that distract you from that very rigid dance.

As an smn main since SB(when I started playing the game) I am excited about the changes and liked what I saw for smn. Im hoping that this new smn will stop the meme of smn being a new job every expac and the dev team finally has a solid foundation to build on. As for those who dislike the changes I understand their worried the job going to be too easy and what not but at the same time I rather them gut the job and create something that they can build on going forward rather than trying to fix the problems that they clearly couldn't fix. Like they have been trying for years to fix the pet ai and failed every time. Either way if it turns out I hate the new smn I have my backup jobs, reaper looks really fun and I love dnc so I will be fine going forward. The best advice to ppl who hate the new smn is to wait and see how the job plays, and if you still don't like it try to find a new job to enjoy. This game has so many jobs to choose from and I think it smart to always have a backup job and if there aren't any other jobs you care for then I really don't know what to say.