Thread: Is anyone else concerned about 6.0 Summoner?

Originally Posted by Dyvid

But is this a good thing though? Back in 2.0 you had jobs that worked for all group, from easy and straight forward to complex and difficult. The problems happen when people say "I want to play XYZ job but don't like the design. SE need to change it so it caters to me." Rather than playing the jobs they like, the want to change the jobs they desire.

In FFXI I wanted to play SMN so badly but when I finally unlocked it... I was completely disappointed in it's design. I tossed my two cents in on the forums; started play BLM then COR instead and was happier for it.
In FFXIV I picked up SMN in beta in feel in love with it playstyle. I played it for 8 years straight and now I'm SoL, go find a new job.

right but they didn't change SMN to make it easy
they changed it to actually be a Summoner since ARR the major complaint of this job has been its aesthetic nothing has been about the jobs complexity(wonder why)
only thing thats truly gone is Dot management and ruin 2
the mobility,Devotion ,all Aetherflow skills and even Titan egi fatty sheild is still there,they even hinted at phsyick scaling with Int.

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I'm not sure how losing bio and miasma, spells never previously associated with SMN, as well as egi assault 1 and egi assault 2 is a loss.

Rydia from FF4 had Bio, as well as Poison, as part of her skillset. Egi Assaults could be scene as the equivalent of say, ordering Anima to use Pain in FF10 or using your ATB to order Leviathan to use Briny Bellow in the FF7R for a more recent example.

Originally Posted by Wavaryen

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Yes, because we all know the dev team only changes things that the majority want. That's why at the beginning of the Live Letter, when they told us that they know a lot of us want to go back to say, 3.0 job complexity, they said they would. That they wouldn't instead double down on the more controversial 5.0 changes. Oh wait.

They just don't know what to do with SMN, just like SCH. Which I already realized back at the beginning of StB when they decided that we didn't need Sustain anymore. Or when SCH lost Energy Drain. Or why our Pet AI keeps getting worse.

Of course a lot of people are happy. Most of them are loving the animations. Which while nice, doesn't really matter to me, as I have them turned of most of the time to help things run better, and the the novelty of them will eventually wear off.

Fun is subjective. For me, and presumably some that main the class as well, the fun in SMN comes from everything I'm managing. Which all seems to be lacking based on the Demo. Did you see the hotbar during it? There was pretty much nothing there, and you have to keep in mind that was the at level 90. They mentioned that only 1 abilty/spell wasn't there, so that is pretty much it. How heck does this class work from 1-80, where a majority of the content for this game is going to be, especially at launch when we're going to have only a couple of things at 90? Why do we have so many insta cast spells when there doesn't appear to be much to weave, with Energy Drain now being on a 60 second cooldown. What is there to keep track of? With them taking DoTs, it seems to be our Gem summons, but... that so basic. Why was Carbuncle just sitting there looking pretty? Why does it seem like we're only going to be spamming Ruin 3 and Outburst, getting new coats of paint on them during trances? Why does it seem like they only listened to people who didn't like the way the job is and had alternatives to play if that was the case, but not the people who enjoyed it for what it was and will now have nothing to fill the void old SMN will leave?

To answer your question op, yes. I am very, very concerned about SMNs new direction.

Rydia having access to Bio is one of the weakest arguments for poison mage SMN that I’ve seen thus far. Anyone who has played FFIV knows that given the opportunity to choose between that and an actual summoning spell, its always better to use a summon. This “unique” summoner some are talking about was garbage in both its aesthetic and its gameplay.

If you’re getting your dopamine rush from...casting poisons as opposed to literally being able to call down Bahamut, Phoenix, and the new full sized Ifrit/Garuda/Titan then you are not who summoner is supposed to appeal to. The poisons were pointless and the egis looked like trash. No seriously, you could crumple up a piece of paper and end up with something that resembles an egi quite easily.

If you’re seriously asking for 3.0 job gameplay then I can only assume you did not play 3.0. Luckily, bow mages and other disastrous job designs are gone for good. I cannot speak for poison mages but for me the novelty of dancer never wore off. It’s still my go to because it nails the job fantasy in terms of its animations and gameplay. It’s extremely easy to find other dancers out in the wild who for the most part love their job.

Now that summoner has been wrested back from the affliction warlocks, just like they’ve told us for the past 8 years to go play another class, the tables have now turned on them. Go play bard, blue mage, or anything really. Summoner must never go back to what it used to be.

Originally Posted by zcrash970

What's funny is Rydia can do more dps with black magic than her summons

Seriously. Bio has a cast time of 0 and a potency of 128 in the 2D versions of Final Fantasy IV. It comes out practically the moment you start casting it, and hits harder than -a spells and most Summons available at the same level, with only Titan coming out ahead. And much later in the game, once you have access to Flare (0 casting time, 400 potency), it's considerably faster to throw out than the strongest available summon, Bahamut (3 casting time, 480 potency). To say nothing of the horribly overpriced and overrated Meteor (10 casting time, 800 potency).

It's only in the 3D versions of FFIV that Bio loses its luster, with its potency being slashed down to 40. But that game nerfed practically all of Rydia's kit, with most if not all of the mid-to-late summons having a cast time of 6-10.

Originally Posted by Jandor

They didn't look like just coats of paint, they seemed like entirely different abilities to me. IIRC Titan was instant casts, while Ifrit was cast times and a melee ability, and Garuda was casts and a ground AoE.

You have 3 (+2) stances that you have to move through but you can pick the order, and your abilities in each stance are swapped and have different pros and cons. Obviously we haven't seen the full kit, but that seems like a potentially solid amount of complexity.

My main issue would be that it seems like it might tread on Black Mages toes a little, being simple to execute in theory but requiring good knowledge of the fight to actually pull off.

I dont think it will be too bad if there is some freedom to the rotation and not like bard where you cycle songs in a specific way
but i can see Ifrit being a little annoying like RDM Melee when you are about to cap and you gotta go in but mechanics say otherwise(but endwalker seem to have fixed this for RDM).

Originally Posted by Duskane

I dont think it will be too bad if there is some freedom to the rotation and not like bard where you cycle songs in a specific way
but i can see Ifrit being a little annoying like RDM Melee when you are about to cap and you gotta go in but mechanics say otherwise(but endwalker seem to have fixed this for RDM).

You echo my concerns about summoning the primals and that is the freedom to decide which one to use at what time. If we can do that I think the changes are for the better even though we lose the DoTs which for me helped with AoE damage.

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

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My comment to MikkoAkure was just pointing out that, yes, a Summoner in the series has had Bio before, when it was stated that one them never has. And it's not the poisons I'm attach to per say. The DoTs didn't have to stay poisoned themed. They could have for example just given us the DoT off Ifrit-Egi's Inferno so it would fit the theme. Could call it Searing Wind.

I've been a SMN main since ARR. And you seemed to have missed my point. I'm upset because it seems we're losing whatever complexity the job had left for flashiness. I play SMN because I like keeping track of multiple things. Between my pet, my DoTs, cooldowns, our long rotation and movement, it's keeps me busy. I'm never bored and this new version of the class doesn't seem to have any of that going for it. I also like having some support. (Speaking of which, why was Resurrection almost on the chopping block but Physick, with all it wonderful use, is still here, apparently without them fixing it?)

As for your suggestion to move on to a new job, none those fill the niche Summoner currently fills. All pet jobs have essentially been killed off other then SCH, and well. And as fun as BLU is... "Limited Job".

Originally Posted by Jandor

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I was referring to both Bahamut and Phoenix Trances when talking about Ruin 3 and Outburst. Both of those transform during them. I admit I don't really see what the cons are, so if you could elaborate? The cast times on Ifrit and Garuda both seem to be less then 3 seconds. Garuda also only has one cast, the rest are instant. The new stances are also a bit of my problem as it seems that's all we are going to be doing when not using Bahamut or Phoenix for their 15 seconds or so. Pretty much B > those 3 > P > those 3 > B and so on without really seeing anything to break it up. *shrugs*

I'm sorry if this comes off as rude or whiny. I also play SCH half the time, and well, do I really need to explain why I'm frustrated and don't exactly trust the Devs get this right?