Can we please continue removing GCD heals to the point where we have none?

[Flynn89]

I think all GCD heals should be removed, except maybe regens. Healing should feel like a special event.

[Saraphin]

no, the GCD Heals is the core of WHM. that's been their "kit" forever. by doing that, you'd take away the "Core Essence" of WHM.

[Drekor]

Wouldn't really even be that weird. We'd basically be similar to tanks.

Tanks basically have DPS rotations and tank stuff oGCD. Healers would have caster dps rotations and healing stuff oGCD. SCH already has basically their entire healing kit oGCD already anyways.

[Roeshel]

no, the GCD Heals is the core of WHM. that's been their "kit" forever. by doing that, you'd take away the "Core Essence" of WHM.

I am pretty sure the elemental magic is WHM's Core Essence which was taken away in Shb. Glare replaced Stone. The wind magic was also removed and got replaced by a light-based one. The cast animation for Aero III actually looked good, better than Misery in my opinion. The white fluff initially came from the Lily system which looks completely random IMHO. You don't even have a job quest linked to a spell that interacts with the gauge. The job gauge needs a rework from the ground up, the whole concept about the lily system is bad and out of place. Holy is the only light-based spell that WHM originally had which again, doesn't interact with the gauge or at least hasn't been interacting with it for the past 8 years.

Whenever I recall Y'shtola's role play duty I keep thinking about what Whm could have been. When I was doing the MSQ for the first time, I did it with WHM and when I completed that quest I kept trying to find that spell somewhere. It wasn't the Temperance, it wasn't Misery, so thought it was hidden behind some quest or stuff but I was mistaken. The reason why I was so certain that we had a spell-like that was that Yugiri used Bunshin somewhere in Stormblood and then I checked if Ninja has that Bunshin ability and they do. They received it in Shb if I am not mistaken. I think maybe, in some far distant future we might also get an ultimate spell like that one when WHM gets a decent rework.

[Irenia]

Yeah, having no gcd heals really wouldn't change much in high level play; everything is planned out as is after all.

It'd just make dungeons take forever as people wait for healing cooldowns to reset before pulling bosses. It'd also make casuals just not want to play anymore, since mistakes are much more punishing for healers and non healers alike.

It's just one of the many quirks of healer design in FFXIV.

[Saraphin]

I am pretty sure the elemental magic is WHM's Core Essence which was taken away in Shb. Glare replaced Stone. The wind magic was also removed and got replaced by a light-based one. The cast animation for Aero III actually looked good, better than Misery in my opinion. The white fluff initially came from the Lily system which looks completely random IMHO. You don't even have a job quest linked to a spell that interacts with the gauge. The job gauge needs a rework from the ground up, the whole concept about the lily system is bad and out of place. Holy is the only light-based spell that WHM originally had which again, doesn't interact with the gauge or at least hasn't been interacting with it for the past 8 years.

Whenever I recall Y'shtola's role play duty I keep thinking about what Whm could have been. When I was doing the MSQ for the first time, I did it with WHM and when I completed that quest I kept trying to find that spell somewhere. It wasn't the Temperance, it wasn't Misery, so thought it was hidden behind some quest or stuff but I was mistaken. The reason why I was so certain that we had a spell-like that was that Yugiri used Bunshin somewhere in Stormblood and then I checked if Ninja has that Bunshin ability and they do. They received it in Shb if I am not mistaken. I think maybe, in some far distant future we might also get an ultimate spell like that one when WHM gets a decent rework.

well, we've been trying to get Lily's redone since...they were introduced. Unfortunately, i think we're stuck with it. Yes, I also think that the moving from Elements to Light Based was probably a bad choice.

Ah, yeah, I remember that Action, i stared and went "is that an upgraded Fluid Aura?" because an AOE Fluid Aura would have been nice, but yeah, we never get the cool stuff the NPCs get...

[Sunhwapark]

You don't recall when it first came out, AST was out doing WHM at healing and DPS. I remember that in 3.5.

You are right though, WHM was definitely starting to be neglected ever since AST was buffed in 3.4, plus at the time both of AST primary dots ignored accuracy checks due to them not applying initial damage upon cast, so they could always provide that minimum damage and deal with healing consistently. Since late Heavenwsward an AST could provide 20% single target and 10% raidwide damage buffs for around 30~55s, very desirable during that 'skip-soar' era with 6dps 1tank 1 healer (or 5dps, 2healers). Stormblood was really bad for WHM, the lillies were implemented quite poorly with RNG on lillies and majority of patches in Stormblood did very little to no adjustments for WHM, meanwhile SCH had Chain Stratagem at this point and AST had Sleeve draw, and then also receiving QoL buffs like the one to malefic's cast time giving them extremely strong weaving space from that moment onward, Stormblood also had that whole issue of raid composition locking due to the piercing/striking debuffs which I'm glad they have done away with.

[EaMett]

WHM lilie skills, although technically GCD, shouldn't really be considered like GCD actions. Their cost to heal ratio is in line with ogcds. Just saying.

[Sebazy]

You don't recall when it first came out, AST was out doing WHM at healing and DPS. I remember that in 3.5. I remember being kicked from 24 man raids because I was running WHM. I remember trying to get clears on EXs and joining a party, then getting kicked with an "Oh, we forgot, we don't want WHMs".

Apologies for going off topic, but but just to clarify here. AST most certainly wasn't out performing WHM at it's release, quite the opposite in fact. AST was actually drastically undertuned for 3.0. Whilst it could manage in dungeons and primals, it's weaknesses were horridly exposed once Gordias Savage landed. Even in A1S, a 3.0 AST would need to be absolutely on point with their healing and APM as they just didn't have the burst healing to recover from just about any set back. On Ragnarok at least, pretty much all but one of the competitive prog teams had their ASTs switching to WHM. The one team that did stick with AST/SCH never made it past Living Liquid despite having a pretty solid lineup. In the end the numbers make for pretty grim reading. SCH has 1541 logged clears of A3S, WHM has 1430, AST has 262.... For A4S AST was 'out cleared' at a ratio approaching 10 to 1.

Naturally this led to several hot fixes and updates that gave AST a divine seal equivalent and a bunch more potency so it could actually contribute. IMHO 3.2 AST was actually pretty close to being on parity with WHM for Savage with many healers including myself switching between the two on a turn by turn basis. But despite this AST still seemed to be haunted by how badly it failed in early Gordias prog and it still saw significantly less use vs WHM/SCH at a ratio of around 6 to 1.

This led to patch 3.4 where it was mindlessly overbuffed to a huge extent, that coupled with WHM's MP/Enmity struggles as well as Creator's emphasis on pushing DPS to skip phases caused WHM to become pretty undesirable in raid statics. Zurvan and the whole skip soar rubbish pretty much did the same in the PF scene come 3.5.

<snip>

I'm of the opinion that SE should take a closer look at early BnS support specced Summoner and Warhammer Online's Warrior Priest gameplay.

Both were fairly simple low committal DPS classes, in Summoner's case, they had fairly potent splash style heals with limited but rapidly regenerating resources. Warrior priest on the other hand was functionally a basic melee DPS that generated resources for an AoE centric healing toolkit that allowed them to splash out healing around them whilst focusing on their melee and positioning.

These two classes would be far more suited to casual content in FFXIV than the overly heal focused jobs that we have and frankly, it boggles my mind that SE didn't consider using these as a basis for Red Mage in particular.

The big problem here of course is how to make something like these work going forward whilst also not forcing them to have to retune old redundant content =(

[Saraphin]

<snip>

I'm speaking specifically of 3.5 here. after all the adjustments, AST did get over tuned. it was slow and at the same time WHM did get nerfs to their things as well, if I recall. I'm not discussing them in Savage content, but in general for things like 8/24 mans.