Smn Rework Suggestions After LL

[SweetPete]

Sorry but I don't want to play a half baked Geomancer.

That’s your choice. There’s a allot of jobs in the game.

[ChazNatlo]

To be fair, Miemi's point was that the class doesn't have depth. I'm sure if they gave us the big summons and the summon phases had weaving or something, they'd have less to complain about.

I disagree with their assessment, but "I think the class is hollow" and "this is more on keeping with the power fantasy" are not contradictory arguments.

[Miemi]

You people are never satisfied. They tried for years to make summoner better and the pet AI sucked and needed to be fixed. When you try for so long sometimes you gotta take another route. Ffxiv summoner was not a true summoner. We know what final fantasy summoner is known for.

And everybody likes the changes, which I already mentioned. What we don't like is how lacking and unfinished 6.0 smn looks.

What we had was a knock off wow dot warlock.

You’re focusing too much about dots. Removing just the dots would barely affect the depth of the job as it currently is.

The pet was horrible with ghosting. If you wanna ignore that then that’s your problem.

This is an argument I see less experienced smns use. It doesn’t justify giving us a job that feels unfinished.. Pet AI is wonky and not perfect, but it’s not as bad as people make you think, you come to learn this after playing smn for a while.

Yoshi said he wanted to bring the fantasy of jobs back and the devs definitely nailed it with summoner. Even if the big primals stay out for 2 seconds they do their ultimate attack as they are suppose to, it’s what summoner is known for. I’m sorry but you people need to get over yourselves.

I guess I’ll have to repeat myself. Thematically they’re going in an amazing direction, but for a 90lvl job this feels unfinished.

People are worried for their main class. Some of us mained SMN for years and it’s completely changing. How do you think we’re gonna feel? “Just play something else?” lol.
If this is what we’re getting, guess we’ll have no other choice.

Looks pretty fun to me. Plenty of other summoner mains think so too. The devs won’t please everyone so it’s fine if a few don’t like the changes. There are other guys that might appeal to you. Hopefully you stick with us though.

I agree we're not the demographic they're aiming for. Sad but fair.

[Miemi]

To be fair, Miemi's point was that the class doesn't have depth. I'm sure if they gave us the big summons and the summon phases had weaving or something, they'd have less to complain about.

I disagree with their assessment, but "I think the class is hollow" and "this is more on keeping with the power fantasy" are not contradictory arguments.

Yes, 100% agree. I'm only focusing on the 6.0 version of this class since it's all the info we have. Of course it's only gonna get better from this point.

I'm sure if they gave us the big summons and the summon phases had weaving or something

Wouldn't take much, a couple of examples: Lower ED cd, more ED stacks, a bigger range of primal abilities to choose from/to manage, primal oGCDs, less unnecessary movement/longer casts... darn even 1 dot back? There's room for literally anything you can think of

[Roda]

So...
Distracting from the argument over who deserves to be happy with the game....

Is it just me, or does the flow from phase to phase feel... off? Like the progression is backwards?

Big ELDER PRIMAL Bahamut is just a cooldown that we use and go through that phase to unlock the 3 smaller semidemis? And those 3 semidemis have the most variance in how they influence our gameplay feel? (Yes I AM pushing semidemis) And in the same vein, phoenix is a slightly different bahamut now (just trade a ogcd nuke for an ogcd heal, and add on a passive, instead of totally different casting behaviors), just to start the cycle over again. I guess they gave us the big cool thing first to line up with openers? But idk, I have the same problem with the rotation now. It's weird that we just have to wait for bahamut and phoenix to show up to grant us access to the other summons, instead of having those other summon mechanics support, or feed into, those big showstopping demi summon phases.

And like aetherflow.. What are you even here for anymore?
(You too ruin IV, you are like 100% here because they wanted us to weave into something but they lined up our rotation so that we didn't have an instant cast handy aren't you?)

Like I know it's WAAAAAAAY too late to change anything, so i'm just indulging in a bit of fantasy here, but I'd appreciate it, thematically, if the flow looked less like this



And more like this

I'm sure there could be buff timers and "persists through incapacitation" effects, to ease the harshness that early-sb resource cohesion would cause.

[ChazNatlo]

Not a complaint, but something that feels weird to me. Why is Titan the damage weaving highly mobile mode? I get that traditionally Titan was an offensive summon and Golem and Carbuncle were the defensive ones, so maybe losing the defensive move was reasonable, but it seems odd that Earth is the element of moving about and attack spamming.

Edit: Maybe it's an avalanche thing.

[Roda]

Not a complaint, but something that feels weird to me. Why is Titan the damage weaving highly mobile mode? I get that traditionally Titan was an offensive summon and Golem and Carbuncle were the defensive ones, so maybe losing the defensive move was reasonable, but it seems odd that Earth is the element of moving about and attack spamming.

Edit: Maybe it's an avalanche thing.

Yeah, I would've expected ifrit to be the crazy mobile one, especially with the ifrit dashes being pretty iconic, and titan to be more.. well... grounded.

[Dyvid]

So...
Distracting from the argument over who deserves to be happy with the game....

Is it just me, or does the flow from phase to phase feel... off? Like the progression is backwards?

Big ELDER PRIMAL Bahamut is just a cooldown that we use and go through that phase to unlock the 3 smaller semidemis? And those 3 semidemis have the most variance in how they influence our gameplay feel? (Yes I AM pushing semidemis) And in the same vein, phoenix is a slightly different bahamut now (just trade a ogcd nuke for an ogcd heal, and add on a passive, instead of totally different casting behaviors), just to start the cycle over again. I guess they gave us the big cool thing first to line up with openers? But idk, I have the same problem with the rotation now. It's weird that we just have to wait for bahamut and phoenix to show up to grant us access to the other summons, instead of having those other summon mechanics support, or feed into, those big showstopping demi summon phases.

And like aetherflow.. What are you even here for anymore?
(You too ruin IV, you are like 100% here because they wanted us to weave into something but they lined up our rotation so that we didn't have an instant cast handy aren't you?)

Basically this seems to be correct. Demi's act as Aetherflow on a 45 second timer that refresh semidemis, I'll just call them Wind, Earth, and Fire Stance. Demi Bahamut seems to add the elements of DWT to it replace 1 and 2 with ??? and deathflare. It seems you just pick whatever stance you like then summon Phoenix to repeat the process giving you a 60s rotation. Based on the gameplay shown; you'll use Wind Stance for AoE, Earth Stance for heavy movement situations, and Fire Stance for non movement heavy dps situations.

[SweetPete]

And everybody likes the changes, which I already mentioned. What we don't like is how lacking and unfinished 6.0 smn looks.




You’re focusing too much about dots. Removing just the dots would barely affect the depth of the job as it currently is.



This is an argument I see less experienced smns use. It doesn’t justify giving us a job that feels unfinished.. Pet AI is wonky and not perfect, but it’s not as bad as people make you think, you come to learn this after playing smn for a while.



I guess I’ll have to repeat myself. Thematically they’re going in an amazing direction, but for a 90lvl job this feels unfinished.

People are worried for their main class. Some of us mained SMN for years and it’s completely changing. How do you think we’re gonna feel? “Just play something else?” lol.
If this is what we’re getting, guess we’ll have no other choice.


I agree we're not the demographic they're aiming for. Sad but fair.

I can agree with you on some of the things you said 100%. However, I am not in the less experienced summoners dear. Just letting you know. I been playing this game since 1.0 before it was remade. I main summoner and the healers since the relaunch.

I personally don’t like dots at all so that’s just me. So was glad to see them go and hope they never return. So I apologize if I got overzealous with you and the others who were just expressing their opinions.

[rewd]

A 6.1 rework? Lol I don’t think so. They aren’t gonna rework the job because very few people saying there is no complex. If you expect a rework then you will be sadly waiting for that. This is the route they are going. It sets up for more primals to be added in the next expansion. They may tweak the damage if it lacks behind the other jobs but that’s all they will do. This will be summoner. Gotta adapt. This job is about to get very popular.

A rework doesn't necessarily mean they are going to scrap 6.0 SMN and come up with another version entirely, and it was already clear when I specifically mentioned 5.1's NIN and SMN. Or AST and the changes it got in 5.1 and 5.3.

It's also very weird how defensive you are getting, especially as you are failing once again (or just pretending) to understand what people are complaining about.