Broil

[BrokentoothMarch]

And there seems to be an entire team of Devs that aren't in agreement with your sentiment.

Then I hope the devs enjoy the game. I know this might be a shocking realization, but the game is meant to be played by players, not the devs. If you think that they are automatically correct just because they're the ones in charge, you are saying every game ever created, even the failures, are indisputable successes.

Please, Mr Lv80 Paladin with about as much healing experience as a toddler does with nuclear fission, just walk away. I'm really of half a mind to say you're just trolling for provocation because you've done literally nothing else but pick fights with two sentence responses that only provide insight into your ignorance of what healing is beyond HP go up.

[Boizinho]

That's because it's called a DPS job. Healers get expanded healing abilities because they are healers. See how that works?

Right, so tanks should tank then?

6.0 should remove Riot Blade, Royal Authority, Prominence, Circle of Scorn, Holy Spirit, Confiteor, Atonement, Holy Circle, Maim, Storm's Path, Mythril Tempest, Decimate, Fell Cleave, Upheaval, Chaotic Cyclone, Storm's Eye, Syphon Strike, Souleater, Flood of Shadow, Edge of Shadow, Abyssal Drain, Carve and Spit, Bloodspiller, Quietus, Stalwart Soul, Brutal Shell, Blasting Zone, Solid Barrel, Burst Strike, Demon Slaughter, Gnashing Fang, Savage Claw, Wicked Talon, Continuation, Bow Shock, and Fated Circle.

Paladin should be Goring Blade -> Fast Blade -> Fast Blade -> Fast Blade -> Fast Blade -> Fast Blade -> Fast Blade -> Fast Blade -> Fast Blade -> Fast Blade

Warrior should be Heavy Swing -> Heavy Swing -> Heavy Swing -> Heavy Swing -> Heavy Swing -> Heavy Swing -> Heavy Swing -> Heavy Swing (No DoT to keep its identity as the easy tank)

Dark Knight should be Salted Earth -> Hard Slash -> Hard Slash -> Hard Slash -> Hard Slash -> Hard Slash -> Hard Slash -> Hard Slash -> Hard Slash

Gunbreaker should be Sonic Break -> Keen Edge -> Keen Edge -> Keen Edge -> Keen Edge -> Keen Edge -> Keen Edge -> Keen Edge -> Keen Edge -> Keen Edge

The rest of their hotbar should be completely filled with Rampart clones. They should have 25 mitigation cooldowns available per minute to deal with the 1 tank buster that happens in that time span. That would be fun, right?

---

Oh, by the way. Your active character literally doesn't have a job stone equipped (Gladiator Lv 80, obviously a troll) and yet your DPS rotation is still more complex than a level 80 healer who does have a job stone equipped. I thought tanks were supposed to tank? They're not called DPS. Get that pesky Rage of Halone off your bars, you have no business using that without a red job icon.

[QooEr]

I keep hearing this "barely need to heal" but am not seeing it in every day practice. Incoming parse from an established group farming an encounter.

if you dont see how little healers have to actually heal then youre not looking at the actual hp bars and damage taken. I also dont know how you can just dismiss proof of the very thing you apparently dont see.

But whatever, if you dont like the evidence that people link, how about you provide it. What content then are you doing that needs so much healing? can you provide us a log, any log, from this expansion where both healers are constantly healing AND:
- have 90+% gcd uptime
- actually use their ogcd heals more than once
- have less than 50% overheal


also a fun observation:
Neo Exdeath, a fight from the very first raid tier in stormblood: the boss dealt a total of 13,171 damage to the party.
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/cnbGm...e=damage-taken

Eden's Verse: Furor (savage), a fight more than a whole expansion later: the boss dealt a total of 17,826 damage to the party
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/FAgJ2...e=damage-taken


yeah ok

[Karthunk]

Right, so tanks should tank then?

Oh those amazing Apples vs Oranges~

And that's what tanks do! Healers heal and DPS, every once, in while do a rotation to contribute to the team effort~

I would be more than happy to take a healer's heals, when tanking, and they can do the tank rotation.

[Roeshel]

Any monkey can play a ShB healer in Duty Finder content. This kind of ego might be warranted in WoW, but it's definitely not in FFXIV. Healing is the easiest role, even in Savage, and people typically refuse to play it because it's extremely boring. Someone has to press the "heal party after raid-wide" button every 30 seconds, but you're not special for taking on that role at all. You sound like a minimum wage employee at a grocery store bragging about "I'm the reason the food is on the shelf for you to put in your cart. I'M the reason why you were able to pay for it with your credit card so the anti-theft scanner doesn't beep." It's honestly a pathetic thing to have a superiority complex about. You didn't pick the role to be essential, you picked the role to be lazy. Anyone can press the heal party button after the hurt party spell. Most people strive to be better than that. You don't.

Also, despite it being mind-numbingly boring, I typically do queue as healer simply to ensure that the slot isn't filled by someone like you. There's absolutely nothing worse in this game than queuing into a group with an entitled and lazy healer with princess syndrome. Every single Duty Finder horror story is a result of attitudes like yours.

Healers are more complicated than DPS and tanks in savage content. AST is arguably the most complicated role in the game to play optimally and they only have 2 DPS buttons to press on GCD. Not only because you don't have an actual rotation that you strictly follow like DPS and tanks, but because optimal play requires managing 1min long oGCD cds and the cooperation of your co-healer and party members if you are not out gearing the content. The second factor is entirely not dependant on individual skills.

It was easier for me to play Summoner in savage prog than it was to play White mage. Optimal play is actually so easy to reach with DPS role, you can do that even if 5 people have died throughout the savage run. People legit have nothing going on with DPS roles. Nothing to look or watch out for that a healer doesn't have to, outside of a simple 1-2-3 rotation filler. They have no responsibility whatsoever outside using Addle on the boss before big raid-wides. They are simply pressing the exact same buttons that they would have pressed when attacking a dummy while watching what the boss is going to do next. If anything DPS jobs have the most predictable pattern of playstyle which is what I find truly boring. Not being able to do anything else outside 1-2-3.

[Karthunk]

if you dont see how little healers have to actually heal then youre not looking at the actual hp bars and damage taken. I also dont know how you can just dismiss proof of the very thing you apparently dont see.

But whatever, if you dont like the evidence that people link, how about you provide it. What content then are you doing that needs so much healing? can you provide us a log, any log, from this expansion where both healers are constantly healing AND:
- have 90+% gcd uptime
- actually use their ogcd heals more than once
- have less than 50% overheal


also a fun observation:
Neo Exdeath, a fight from the very first raid tier in stormblood: the boss dealt a total of 13,171 damage to the party.
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/cnbGm...e=damage-taken

Eden's Verse: Furor (savage), a fight more than a whole expansion later: the boss dealt a total of 17,826 damage to the party
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/FAgJ2...e=damage-taken


yeah ok

Encounters not forcing enough mandatory healing does not equate into healers needing some kind of elaborate dos rotation.

And here is the rub again: an organized group that has an encounter on farm mode can minimize dmg by doing the encounter flawlessly because they know how to do all the mechanics properly. Join any duty finder group and all of that falls away.

[QooEr]

Encounters not forcing enough mandatory healing does not equate into healers needing some kind of elaborate dos rotation.

I never mentioned dps rotations. i asked you to provide me evidence of your claim "I keep hearing this "barely need to heal" but am not seeing it in every day practice"
You also implicitly agreed that theres very little damage in recent encounters. "Encounters not forcing enough mandatory healing[...]"

...so which one is it then?

And here is the rub again: an organized group that has an encounter on farm mode can minimize dmg by doing the encounter flawlessly because they know how to do all the mechanics properly. Join any duty finder group and all of that falls away.

Who said the logs i linked werent from PF? i can give you plenty of other logs from several fights i did on PF this expansion where the bosses dealt comparable damage to neo exdeath.

[Ardour]

i've lurked this forum long enough to realize that some portion of the player base just doesn't want healing to be a demanding job and will vocally oppose any efforts to raise the barrier to entry. I disagree with those people, but honestly I don't think it's worth arguing the point anymore. the devs have shown that they are firmly committed to maximum accessibility, and it's not like the other roles don't already allow minimum effort players to squeak by in their own way. it's just the nature of a hyper-casual queue based MMO.

what I don't get, though - what I've never seen argued cogently even once - is how giving healers more DPS buttons would actually raise the barrier to entry. of course, it would make optimal play more difficult (that's the point!) but if you're already unconcerned with maximizing your DPS, it's not going to change anything for you. I don't buy the argument that more abilities would scare off new players, because new players have no problem flocking to DPS jobs with twice the complexity of healers and then just disregarding most of the mechanics. what's the sense in designing jobs around people who are going to press buttons more or less at random anyways? it's also worth noting that MSQ/overworld battles are a significant part of the new player experience, and they feel TERRIBLE on healer with their current DPS options. I think that unbelievably tedious encounters are far more likely to make a new player quit than somehow getting confused by a few DPS buttons.

the only drawback I see to augmenting healer DPS kits is button bloat - but it's pretty hard to argue that healers need all of their healing buttons currently, and the folks clamoring for simplicity shouldn't object to losing a heal or two anyways. if encounter design demanded more from healers than it might feel bad losing some healing tools, but veteran players should know by now that encounter design is NEVER going to radically change such that healers are required to constantly be healing. hey, I wish that healing was more demanding too! but that's not the game that we have, and it's not the game we're ever going to have. using that argument in favor of gimped healer DPS feels pretty disingenuous to me at this point. in fact it says a lot about how poorly designed healers are that even Squenix's staunchest defenders realize there's a massive gap between the way the role is designed and the way the game actually plays.

[AFuzzyMu11in]

There's that constant Sylphie strawman. Complexity between zero and "5D chess" is all equivalent. Having zero complexity is exactly the same as having a small amount of it.

Playing a DPS may not be the most mentally taxing thing you've ever had to do, but it's certainly one thing healers aren't- fun. I refuse to believe Sylphies actually think Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare is fun. It's the worst deliberate RPG class design I've ever seen.

It’s fine because what’s fun is the boss dying. For example in old Tales of abyss games I spammed demon fang and never used other artes. Many did that why? Because it’s fun to fight and kill things not the complexity to it.

[AFuzzyMu11in]

Remind me, which DPS job has a rotation that never gets any more complex after level 4?



People with crippling physical disabilities have cleared Savage. Stop making excuses. If you typed all these posts yourself, you have what it takes to play an MMO at a level above the absolute bare minimum. We know what it takes because we do it in every encounter.

Look, here's the deal. It's obvious that you're already not playing your job to its fullest potential and you really, obviously don't care that you aren't. If they made healers more complex or more interesting or, god forbid, raised the skill ceiling a bit, nothing would change for you. You'd go from someone who's too lazy to do more than the bare minimum, to someone who's too lazy to do more than the bare minimum. If they add 3 more buttons to the DPS rotation, just don't press them. Just like you're already probably playing very poorly and not caring because you're "carrying" the group by queuing as the green job.

You're already proud of the fact that you're not even close to the skill cap as it is now, so you should have no problem with it being raised. Anyone who cares to improve is already better at playing a healer than you are.

I care to improve when I’m rewarded for it. Aka when I’m forced to for better gear in end game content. If I need to improve and get rewarded with savage gear bis then sure if not then why bother?