Monk Identity and Blitz ?

[Raikai]

I feel that with so many ways to bypass positionals as a MNK, they became more pointless than ever, just like Greased Lightning... Honestly, I don't thinnk positionals is a bad concept, but I think they feel weird to play with the responsiveness of XIV's combat system.

Surprisingly, everything I wished for MNK (no GL, less/no positionals, Sabin blitz inspiration) is happening - I'm really excited to try it, I may shelf NIN as my melee dps job.

[Braven_Doomdraft]

Yes... i´m the problem as many others, because we actually want to play the game, because we want to play MNK with all his positionals.

Sorry that we want to work for our DPS instead...

Let's do an actual informed deep-dive into when you need to position for Monk, because your persecution complex surrounding positionals really needs to be torn down.

Rear: Bootshine, True Strike, Demolish.

Flank: Snap Punch, Twin Snakes, Dragon Kick.

Where is a DPS's general position in a high-stakes battle 85% of the time? The rear. So for half of your skills, you don't even need to position outside your normal location in a fight. The other three are flank positions, so you move a whopping five steps to the side of the enemy. You really think that this makes you more impressive than another DPS? It doesn't. You are an increased risk of DPS loss due to death and/or misaligning your positional on top of being one of the weakest DPS in the game.

Nothing is more casual than not understanding the intricacies of your own class and being able to identify either inconsistencies in technical gameplay and/or the reason why it isn't viable in the current climate of the game.

All classes in Final Fantasy XIV have been based on the historical jobs in the series. Monk has NEVER had any business being about positions. It's always been fast, multi-hit DPS with some self-sustaining heals and status-boosting peripheral skills. Final Fantasy XIV's Light Party - Full Party/Alliance dynamic relies on a tank that takes hate and positions enemy cleave/damage and mitigates damage, a healer who nullifies and/or recovers damage dealt to a party with some notable buffs/debuffs and DPS with different flavors, DoTs, and party synergy.

Positionals are garbage. Your complex and delusions about being "good" at the game (when all you really do is the same as any other DPS, 123, move, burst, 123, move, burst - you know, because you aren't the only class that has to position in a fight) are grossly negligent of the real problems plaguing the class and you offer ZERO valuable input insofar as improving it.

Tell me, how many times have people been impressed with you in a battle as opposed to a clinch healer or a fast-reacting tank? My guess is none. NIN, SAM, and DRG are a million times better than MNK and guess what? It's not because of its positionals. It's because their classes are designed to succeed in spite of their position on the battlefield.

[Braven_Doomdraft]

I feel that with so many ways to bypass positionals as a MNK, they became more pointless than ever, just like Greased Lightning... Honestly, I don't thinnk positionals is a bad concept, but I think they feel weird to play with the responsiveness of XIV's combat system.

Surprisingly, everything I wished for MNK (no GL, less/no positionals, Sabin blitz inspiration) is happening - I'm really excited to try it, I may shelf NIN as my melee dps job.

Same. I've always wanted to main MNK but it's not fun in its current iteration when compared to other classes. I love playing NIN and the combination of its speed and utility make it fun to play. Positionals in games like Xenoblade/Xenoblade 2 work well because the entire game is designed around that type of battle system. Final Fantasy XIV isn't.

[Sqwall]

Positionals are a liability mechanic in a game that requires avid movement to reposition as a core mechanic against bosses.

You. Are. The. Problem.

I also understand where you're coming from here. I have also put myself in harms way to complete a positional, and would have to double back to not die. Using Riddle of Earth or True North....clunky design for a measly 30 potency. Reminds me of the idea of using a macro to use nascent or salted earth just to remove obstacles because the execution of the skills were not well thought out. The community used macros to "make them work better/faster". Ultimately, Nascent was tweaked to no longer need a party member to execute, and now we know that salted earth in 6.0 will just act like consecrate in WoW did for Paladin at your feet. I find these QoL improvements widely accepted by everyone. I don't miss having to cycle through party members that are actually in range for the old way Nascent worked. Salted Earth will also be accepted to just...use the skill instead of the weird macro execution (or simply placing it).

True North and Riddle of Earth being used to negate positionals is warranted, but to use them to play optimally just increases the emphasis on disjointed playstyle. Riddle of Earth had a better design with a 30 second timer that ignored positionals altogether, and a 10% damage mitigation. It was completely preventative where you needed to take damage while the damage mitigation was on to get the bonus of no positionals for 30 sec. Clunky, but it was WAY better then popping true north, as Riddle of Earth offered better gameplay. Take a raid wide AOE...pop Riddle of Earth, get 10% mitigation, and 30 sec of no positionals. Make a bad decision to complete a positional, or know that a mechanic threat is incoming and you might get hit....pop Riddle of Earth, set for 30 sec.

Riddle of Earth is a bargain bin True North now. Now with the way Blitz is going to work, and the reduction of positionals for Raptor form! This offers MUCH more flexibility for 6.0, and the future of the job. I don't and will never understand the infatuation of positionals as a "complex form" of personal fulfillment to flex your skill level. That's like saying..."I'm good at X....I should be praised, therefore the job must stay that way in order for me to continue being praised"....when nobody really cares at all.

[ssunny2008]

snip

I don´t need to be informed by ppl who´re always like "Nono, i don´t want to get punished for my mistakes and lazyness!". MNK is more than viable. Just because you´re not willing to play it properly and don´t want to work for the DPS outcome, doesn´t mean that positionals are a technically issue. They´ve been presented since beginning and got nerfed into the ground thx to all the whiny ppl, who haven´t even tried to get better at any job.

If you think DRG, SAM and NIN are better, then just play them and ignore MNK? Still don´t get why ppl are moaning about 1 job, when they obviously fall in love with others. We play MNK, you play something else, problem solved?!

Don´t know where you got the info "MNK is one of the weakest DPS in the game" too, when there are only 2 classes which out-DPS him for sure. And one of it depends even hard on the given mechanics, meanwhile the other is a self-carry class for whatever reason.

[Sqwall]

Same. I've always wanted to main MNK but it's not fun in its current iteration when compared to other classes. I love playing NIN and the combination of its speed and utility make it fun to play. Positionals in games like Xenoblade/Xenoblade 2 work well because the entire game is designed around that type of battle system. Final Fantasy XIV isn't.

Never thought of it from that angle. That's a great comparison and one that I don't have to think about. Xenoblade/2 I never thought for a second about positionals because the game didn't put obstacles in your way to fulfill the gameplay. It was almost invisible to complete positionals in Xenoblade because like you said that game was built around that aspect of battle. FFXIV in a lot of ways is the reverse of Xenoblade. The Boss moves you have to reposition to avoid damage. Makes me think about Blitz and how it will be incorporated into MNK's overall design at 90....ugh...media tour needs to come NOW!

[Braven_Doomdraft]

If you think DRG, SAM and NIN are better, then just play them and ignore MNK? Still don´t get why ppl are moaning about 1 job, when they obviously fall in love with others. We play MNK, you play something else, problem solved?!

Don´t know where you got the info "MNK is one of the weakest DPS in the game" too, when there are only 2 classes which out-DPS him for sure. And one of it depends even hard on the given mechanics, meanwhile the other is a self-carry class for whatever reason.

I've played a Monk in every Final Fantasy game I've ever played. In FFXI, it was one of the best classes. (Speaking of a game that actually requires skill - that would be it). That's why I want to play it, but not while it's in the garbage heap. I play every job because I enjoy knowing the different aspects of each role in order to better fulfill mine in a party. It's pretty selfish of you to just care about the job's current build because you like it while completely disregarding the overwhelmingly popular belief that the job needs reworked because others want to play it/others who have played it don't like it.

So my answer to you is this: if you don't like MNK after the rework, don't play it. Play something else.

It's that simple, right?

Sources on DPS tier lists:

https://www.gamersdecide.com/articles/ff14-best-dps
https://www.gamepur.com/guides/final...class-to-worst
https://us.millenium.gg/guide/19675.html
https://gamerant.com/final-fantasy-1...i-dancer-bard/

Post rework:

https://www.gamersdecide.com/articles/ff14-best-dps

(Gee, it's almost like Monk needed to be completely re-imagined in order for people to want to play it. It must sting to know that you play one of the worst classes.)

[Sqwall]

(Gee, it's almost like Monk needed to be completely re-imagined in order for people to want to play it. It must sting to know that you play one of the worst classes.)

I'm kind of numb to it at this point, and it does sting. But I don't defend it like some....I embrace the bad and try to fix it. I know monk is horrible and has been for years. Your points on FFXI MNK make so much sense...and that job was light years ahead of FFXIV iteration, and it didn't need positionals to be one of the best jobs in the game. It really boils down to actually putting in the effort to design a job and monk has fallen off the table for other high profile jobs over the years. Here's to 6.0!

[Braven_Doomdraft]

I get tying a job to your identity as a player and rebuking an attempt to change part of that identity. But I think it's worth giving SE a chance to reconsider what the job is about, what makes sense for their game based on their future plans for gameplay (which we know nothing about aside from conjecture) and repositioning ourselves from that point forward in the best interest of the community, our own enjoyment and the game as a whole. That's why I would like to see Monk reworked in a way that a majority of players can enjoy it instead of what I must assume is a minority right now, based on the fact that they're reworking/reimagining it at all.

Know what I mean?

[ssunny2008]

I've played a Monk in every Final Fantasy game I've ever played.

This is still a MMORPG and no singleplayer-game. Even FFXI is way different from this one.

So my answer to you is this: if you don't like MNK after the rework, don't play it. Play something else.

It's that simple, right?

It would be simple yes, but it isn´t. We´re all different players and to offer 1 or 2 classes, which need more input and might be a bit punishing, is no issue. It´s a challenge for a bunch of ppl, so classes are made for them, while other classes (e.g. DNC) are made for ppl who can´t or don´t want to put work in their classes. Not everything needs to be the same or needs to cater only one part of the whole playerbase.

Sources on DPS tier lists:

https://www.gamersdecide.com/articles/ff14-best-dps
https://www.gamepur.com/guides/final...class-to-worst
https://us.millenium.gg/guide/19675.html
https://gamerant.com/final-fantasy-1...i-dancer-bard/

Post rework:

https://www.gamersdecide.com/articles/ff14-best-dps

Best DPS class is different from the dps output. MNK is far away from being weak and such tier lists are more clickbaits and based on personal opinions than anything else. I just need to open the first and SAM is not on the first place. Like how with his damage output? Even without a personal touch, the take the whole game as reference, combined with the "easyness" of classes and aoe abilities etc...
It isn´t a real tier list, when we talk about dps itself. And in that case the only reference would be savage / ultimate content where SAM overshines everything mechanically based together with BLM. Both are followed by all other melees / caster, which are pretty even to each other. Only RDPS lack hard behind for reasons.