Monk Identity and Blitz ?

[wereotter]

You didn't answer the question.
The question was: Would you play SAM if it had it's current kit, and had 6 positionals. Idenity aside...just the rules of the job.

I didn't ask to change the job to fit how it would work for you.

Weighing in as well.... but to me the answer would be no, I still wouldn't play samurai with six positionals. But there's more that separates samurai and monk than just the positinal attacks. Sure more movement would make samruai more interresting, however, there are also major differences. Monk values an extremely low GCD, a trait that it shares with really only BLM. SAM doesn't want to be as fast, which makes the play experience of the two jobs substantially different.

Additionally, I DID play samurai just as much as monk in Stormblood, however, with the changes to samurai in shadowbringers that nerfed hagakure into the ground, and the increased reliance in iajutsu, I found that the high pitched noises of the windup attack were causing me severe headaches and making me physically sick. I can't even play next to a samurai at this point without that problem and had to turn off the sounds made by all other players just to prevent this. So again, no.

All that said, if monk lost its positional attacks AND lost its speed, I'd probably go to playing dragoon where there is more movement, or machinist since at least its overhead window is super high speed.

[ssunny2008]

So by this logic tanks are boring to play sense they have no positionals. Are you suggesting to spice things up a bit that the Main Tank needs to hit a flank every once in a while?

Tanks are boring to play for a lot of reasons, especially thx to SHB. And it would even possible for the MT to perform positionals, bosses don´t turn or attack every ~15s in their 5s castbar so, why not?

And Ranged is just as boring to play as it should incorporate movement for range-movement style DPS.

Somehow I doubt the r.DPS would like to be constantly moving to do damage.

I haven´t said anything about "sitting on max range" or that it have to be a permanent thing. But hey, other games have such stuff too on archer classes and it works fine.
Not to mention that we´ve already a system like this on any melee classes. It´s called "max - melee - range" and it´s used in a lot of fights more than once. So i´m pretty sure every decent RDPS player would make it happen easily.

Having to sit at max range to rDPS or something like that would be a raid design nightmare.

I don´t know why you, someone who doesn´t raid properly and surely haven´t even touched savage, is claiming such stuff. It would be like positionals, you don´t need them for everything which is not savage or ultimate. There is no need that casuals have to take care about them, if it would be a thing one day.

EDIT: For the most guys it would probably even increase the damage, since they stay at the end of nowhere, aren´t able to stay with the group and don´t move into any healer-bubble anyway.

[Mezzoforte]

I really dislike them removing positionals on form 2. Monk is the positional heavy melee, players asking for the postionals removed I don't get.. You have DRG, SAM, NIN and soon reaper to play instead. Why change a job you barely play to suit you and screw over the monk mains who love the movement the job requires? #
Aside from the capitulation to the woe is me too many positional ppl. I like the look of the monk now. It was one of my fave jobs in stormblood along with smn, ast and drk. But in shadowbringers it felt a bit less nice.. it got better and then got weird when they remove the 4th greased lightning stack since that was it's whole schtick for that expansion.
The new dash looks cool! I still wish it actually did damage though.. I am not likely to dash to allies often. I can position myself just fine!

It not doing damage is actually the best part. Now you can use it solely for positioning. Giving you more uptime and doing some really cute types of movements that let you keep that GCD rolling. That is one of the things I hate about Gunbreaker is I am forced to expend my gap-closers for damage and never use them for actually closing gaps. It is annoying and constantly bothers the hell out of me. I will trade you :^)

[StriderShinryu]

My only issue with new Monk is really the new dash. I love concept and look but it really feels like it would be better served if it functioned like Dancer's En Avant as opposed to BLM's teleport. Having to target a friend or foe before you can use it and having it function like a teleport just seems like it will feel very clunky to actually use. An En Avant style dash would feel a lot more free and a lot more fun.

[IruruCece]

My only issue with new Monk is really the new dash. I love concept and look but it really feels like it would be better served if it functioned like Dancer's En Avant as opposed to BLM's teleport. Having to target a friend or foe before you can use it and having it function like a teleport just seems like it will feel very clunky to actually use. An En Avant style dash would feel a lot more free and a lot more fun.

I think you touch on something that has been a concern among a lot of critics of Monk: how "busy" the job is.

Lots of casual monks have complained that they are expected to do "too much" when it comes to handling positionals, in addition to managing combos, using stuff during their burst phase, and so on while also factoring the now-permanent GL. Now that we're basically bargain bin ninjas with our Blitzes, and still have four positionals to manage, having a blm-style teleport just seems like it's asking for players to complain that the job is too demanding (again) and drop it (again) for something flashier and simpler (again).

It's nice that the current teleport seems to allow us to attack as soon as the GCD is done (and six sided star seems to no longer put everything on cooldown). If nothing else, the changes seems to still emphasize aggression on the player's part.

[Mindiori]

The more complex the better. Anything that offers respite from the pathetic excuse of a joke they seem to want classes dumbed down to, is all good with me.

Be nice to start a trend of increasing skill with play. Not watching it fade away into the hands of whatever IQ -5 ok'd Scholar.

[Aelin_Ashryver]

Because mnk is the least played melee job. A lot of people find or found mnk really cool aesthetically but did not enjoy the gameplay.

Maybe they don't like the other melee and only want to play mnk?

There are plenty of reasons for changes. It's bigger than just "don't take my positional away because it makes me better than the casual next to me.". There are game mechanics on the dungeon and trial side that can do that way better.

Removing 2 positional requirements is really not that big of a deal in the grand scheme.

I like the big booms of the black mage, I would love to play it more but the static nature of the job does not suit me. Devs should not suddenly change the BLM to suit me, a person who does not play the job. Because ultimately even if they do I likely would not main the job and I would wager that it is the case with some people who like the look of monk but didn't like the positionals.. how likely are they to stick on a job that is STILL busy? Just a bit less so now. There was nothing to stop them playing it before, I am doing no "casual" shaming here... they could play it before and so long as they stuck to abc's and were making SOME effort they wouldn't miss that many positionals. Jobs don't need dumbing down for people that are not even commited to the job.

There will be a least played of every subclass. Changing things that made that niche class so nice for its dedicated players is about the most awful thing you could do for that playerbase, even if it is smaller than the one you are currently trying to reach. You as a dev prove that you will not respect the players investment and will change on a dime if a crowd big enough demands a change that is not even really needed. You can still play monk, you can clear all the most basic of content and miss the majority of your positionals and still clear it as it's so scaled down. If you can't clear savage etc with the job maybe consider another one as it is not for you, as BLM is not for me.

It's not just 2 positionals, it is the entire game overall being dumbed down and slowed down. All my Stormblood fave's Astro, DRK, MNK. All have been/getting slowed down and more simple. They bring down the skill ceiling and overall they are not really moving the skill FLOOR at all. If you missed your positionals in ShB you're gonna miss em in EW.. you just gonna have 2 fewer now. But for those who WANT that extra little thing to strive for, to perfect. It's gone. And removing that is unacceptable.

[Aelin_Ashryver]

It not doing damage is actually the best part. Now you can use it solely for positioning. Giving you more uptime and doing some really cute types of movements that let you keep that GCD rolling. That is one of the things I hate about Gunbreaker is I am forced to expend my gap-closers for damage and never use them for actually closing gaps. It is annoying and constantly bothers the hell out of me. I will trade you :^)

I do understand that for sure ^^ The dash animation itself if for sure very nice I am happy with it! I will get used to the new dash I am sure. I am rather out of practice on my monk since I dropped the job once they did that little rework a while ago in favour of waiting to see what they do in EW. Do understand the need to just blow the dash for dmg during burst windows. I have been playing GNB a fair bit lately and find myself doing the exact same thing, to then find I could really use that gap closer about 20 seconds later.. rofl
Pros and cons, more the feeling for me ykno? DAMAGE RAAHHH I am hopeful I can get back to enjoying the zoomie feel of monk and not mind the missing positionals too much with the chakra's to keep me busy.

[Braven_Doomdraft]

Positionals are a liability mechanic in a game that requires avid movement to reposition as a core mechanic against bosses.

Case in point? I was playing an extreme yesterday. To complete a positional, the monk walked into the boss mechanic and died. When you're a DPS and the identity tied to your job revolves around moving in order to get the max efficiency out of your rotation, you are a liability. You are a job that requires more work to be viable than any other. True North be damned - but also, if you need a skill shoehorned into your role that negates the need for positioning, that's a tell-tale sign of bad class design.

If you're not doing your positional because of a boss mechanic, you're reducing DPS. If you don't complete your positional/rotation due to positional, you're reducing DPS; and if your class's main role is dealing damage? You're a liability. End of story. Positionals do not make you good at the game and they do not loan credence to the class. I do not play/did not play MNK after a certain point because I got tired of all the busy work required just to come close to the DPS other classes were doing. If you're one of the people crying about how MNK's identity is being stymied because they removed a positional?

You. Are. The. Problem.

[ssunny2008]

Snip[/B]

Yes... i´m the problem as many others, because we actually want to play the game, because we want to play MNK with all his positionals.

Sorry that we want to work for our DPS instead of relying on self-carry classes. Sorry that we pick every little challenge. Sorry that we´re not lazy. Sorry that we play the game as intended for years. Sorry that we´re gamer, who try their best. And really sorry from me, that i´m a gamer and not a mighty casual, who wants everything for free without any efford.


Btw your claims doesn´t make sense. "You are a job that requieres more work to be viable than any other." <-> "Positionals do not make you good at the game..."

Hmmm... if i´m able to hit my positionals around any boss mechanics to get 2000 DPS more out of my class, i´m not good at the game? Does 123 burst, 123 burst meanwhile staying 24/7 on the same spot make you good at the game?

Case in point? I was playing an extreme yesterday. To complete a positional, the monk walked into the boss mechanic and died. [/B]

Judging by casual content about casuals or unexperienced players (obviously). Seems legit.