Monk Identity and Blitz ?

[Yokubo]

[QUOTE=IruruCece;5664256]

Positionals, as they currently exist, is a major reason why melee jobs are more than just a shorter range version of MCH or DNC. It's a means of actually distinguishing melee from other DPS options, and the "dependence" on positionals varies among the melee DPS in question, which in turn contributes to their individual identity./QUOTE]

This is a good way to put it. Basically without positional DPS would be no different from WoW where all you do is faceroll the attacks mindlessly, where it adds depth to the class to move around. With a large influx of WoW players, of course we'll see people complain about the existence of having to use their minds, but that's what makes the class fun.

I didn't watch the live letter but heard they remove positions from form 2 attacks (true strike and twin snakes) and that's what my gripe is. At this point the rotation is so ingrained in my muscles for playing monk I hardly have to think about it, but the removal of something that's just natural to me is deeply upsetting that SE feels they need to gut part of the class to appease the players that are upset about doing 30 potency less per attack because they aren't familiar with the class.

Basically without positionals melee class DPS is just mindlessly hit the buttons, but the concept of positionals is what makes melee DPS have a bit more depth than other DPS classes. Classes have already been dumbed down a lot and the consistent dumbing down makes it hard to distinguish a 'good' player from a 'bad' player to put it objectively. Not saying that to trash on new players but it's nice to be able to shine and have a reason to keep at a class and have a mastery to achieve.

[Sqwall]

I'd welcome context sensitive commands, and having it based on distance would take advantage of Range mobility and give them a unique game goal to work for.

Sure. In a perfect world were the boss never moves, or the AOE stack marker isn't 15 yalms away, or you're baiting aoe and moving, or you're moving to the center of arena for a knockback to outer edge, or stacking under a boss for a donut aoe, or half the freaking arena is deleted an your forced to stand in a spot out of max range.

That would be a pretty boring raid if it were design with max range dps in mind....might was well just forget trying to hit max range every time.

Sounds unrealistic, and a nightmare to achieve

[Kabooa]

Sure. In a perfect world were the boss never moves, or the AOE stack marker isn't 15 yalms away, or you're baiting aoe and moving, or you're moving to the center of arena for a knockback to outer edge, or stacking under a boss for a donut aoe, or half the freaking arena is deleted an your forced to stand in a spot out of max range.

That would be a pretty boring raid if it were design with max range dps in mind....might was well just forget trying to hit max range every time.

Sounds unrealistic, and a nightmare to achieve

I can literally do it in every single encounter we've had. So what's the problem?

At worst, it means I have a quick minigame of determining whether to delay or to unleash.

[Yokubo]

let us think about this in a more deep manner, for a moment... Samurai has two positional requirements. Kasha at flank and Gecko at rear...
Let us add four positional requirements, then. Shifu at flank, Jinpu at Rear, YukiKaze at rear, and.. hmn... how about Hissatsu: Seigan at flank?

now, then... Samurai with six positional requirements.

Would you play this? would Sunny? would I? I would still play Samurai, since Samurai would not be more difficult because of this, in my opinion...
To be honest, I would not even care much.. and just hit the positional requirements, while in the case of hissatsu: Seigan... If you imagine that being its potency 220 and potency 250 on positional...I just raised the skill ceiling, with no impact at all on the skill floor, since many Samurai players do not even use Third Eye, let alone Hissatsu: Seigan.

This build still has fixed positionals with no mixup barely implementing the movement that makes Monk fun. Half the joy to monk for me is the dancing and weaving between flank and rear and having that movement be a core part to the class.

That current setup has positionals, but just cycles "rear combo" " flank combo" "rear combo" repeat. Monk has a fun dynamic where in one cycle you go flank flank rear // rear rear flank // flank rear flank. You don't just sit in one position which makes the class rely on movement making the cookie cutter rotation have a bit more depth to it

[StriderShinryu]

My only issue with new Monk is really the new dash. I love concept and look but it really feels like it would be better served if it functioned like Dancer's En Avant as opposed to BLM's teleport. Having to target a friend or foe before you can use it and having it function like a teleport just seems like it will feel very clunky to actually use. An En Avant style dash would feel a lot more free and a lot more fun.

[IruruCece]

My only issue with new Monk is really the new dash. I love concept and look but it really feels like it would be better served if it functioned like Dancer's En Avant as opposed to BLM's teleport. Having to target a friend or foe before you can use it and having it function like a teleport just seems like it will feel very clunky to actually use. An En Avant style dash would feel a lot more free and a lot more fun.

I think you touch on something that has been a concern among a lot of critics of Monk: how "busy" the job is.

Lots of casual monks have complained that they are expected to do "too much" when it comes to handling positionals, in addition to managing combos, using stuff during their burst phase, and so on while also factoring the now-permanent GL. Now that we're basically bargain bin ninjas with our Blitzes, and still have four positionals to manage, having a blm-style teleport just seems like it's asking for players to complain that the job is too demanding (again) and drop it (again) for something flashier and simpler (again).

It's nice that the current teleport seems to allow us to attack as soon as the GCD is done (and six sided star seems to no longer put everything on cooldown). If nothing else, the changes seems to still emphasize aggression on the player's part.

[Mindiori]

The more complex the better. Anything that offers respite from the pathetic excuse of a joke they seem to want classes dumbed down to, is all good with me.

Be nice to start a trend of increasing skill with play. Not watching it fade away into the hands of whatever IQ -5 ok'd Scholar.

[Braven_Doomdraft]

Positionals are a liability mechanic in a game that requires avid movement to reposition as a core mechanic against bosses.

Case in point? I was playing an extreme yesterday. To complete a positional, the monk walked into the boss mechanic and died. When you're a DPS and the identity tied to your job revolves around moving in order to get the max efficiency out of your rotation, you are a liability. You are a job that requires more work to be viable than any other. True North be damned - but also, if you need a skill shoehorned into your role that negates the need for positioning, that's a tell-tale sign of bad class design.

If you're not doing your positional because of a boss mechanic, you're reducing DPS. If you don't complete your positional/rotation due to positional, you're reducing DPS; and if your class's main role is dealing damage? You're a liability. End of story. Positionals do not make you good at the game and they do not loan credence to the class. I do not play/did not play MNK after a certain point because I got tired of all the busy work required just to come close to the DPS other classes were doing. If you're one of the people crying about how MNK's identity is being stymied because they removed a positional?

You. Are. The. Problem.

[ssunny2008]

Snip[/B]

Yes... i´m the problem as many others, because we actually want to play the game, because we want to play MNK with all his positionals.

Sorry that we want to work for our DPS instead of relying on self-carry classes. Sorry that we pick every little challenge. Sorry that we´re not lazy. Sorry that we play the game as intended for years. Sorry that we´re gamer, who try their best. And really sorry from me, that i´m a gamer and not a mighty casual, who wants everything for free without any efford.


Btw your claims doesn´t make sense. "You are a job that requieres more work to be viable than any other." <-> "Positionals do not make you good at the game..."

Hmmm... if i´m able to hit my positionals around any boss mechanics to get 2000 DPS more out of my class, i´m not good at the game? Does 123 burst, 123 burst meanwhile staying 24/7 on the same spot make you good at the game?

Case in point? I was playing an extreme yesterday. To complete a positional, the monk walked into the boss mechanic and died. [/B]

Judging by casual content about casuals or unexperienced players (obviously). Seems legit.

[Sqwall]

Positionals are a liability mechanic in a game that requires avid movement to reposition as a core mechanic against bosses.

You. Are. The. Problem.

I also understand where you're coming from here. I have also put myself in harms way to complete a positional, and would have to double back to not die. Using Riddle of Earth or True North....clunky design for a measly 30 potency. Reminds me of the idea of using a macro to use nascent or salted earth just to remove obstacles because the execution of the skills were not well thought out. The community used macros to "make them work better/faster". Ultimately, Nascent was tweaked to no longer need a party member to execute, and now we know that salted earth in 6.0 will just act like consecrate in WoW did for Paladin at your feet. I find these QoL improvements widely accepted by everyone. I don't miss having to cycle through party members that are actually in range for the old way Nascent worked. Salted Earth will also be accepted to just...use the skill instead of the weird macro execution (or simply placing it).

True North and Riddle of Earth being used to negate positionals is warranted, but to use them to play optimally just increases the emphasis on disjointed playstyle. Riddle of Earth had a better design with a 30 second timer that ignored positionals altogether, and a 10% damage mitigation. It was completely preventative where you needed to take damage while the damage mitigation was on to get the bonus of no positionals for 30 sec. Clunky, but it was WAY better then popping true north, as Riddle of Earth offered better gameplay. Take a raid wide AOE...pop Riddle of Earth, get 10% mitigation, and 30 sec of no positionals. Make a bad decision to complete a positional, or know that a mechanic threat is incoming and you might get hit....pop Riddle of Earth, set for 30 sec.

Riddle of Earth is a bargain bin True North now. Now with the way Blitz is going to work, and the reduction of positionals for Raptor form! This offers MUCH more flexibility for 6.0, and the future of the job. I don't and will never understand the infatuation of positionals as a "complex form" of personal fulfillment to flex your skill level. That's like saying..."I'm good at X....I should be praised, therefore the job must stay that way in order for me to continue being praised"....when nobody really cares at all.