Temporary SGE tooltips

[Deceptus]

Here's's yet another condensed version of the the Sage summary.


It's kinda funny seeing it like this. For the most part you could mistaken it as a "Pure" healer with how the developers do it. Also the fact that WHM may have three barriers now also muddles things again. 2 charges for divine bension and now what seems to be the replacement for Fluid Aura.

Yep.

I know they're going to have a single target Shield and an AoE shield somewhere later but this just screams Pure Healer.

[NorthernLadMSP]

Lots of Hots for a shield class. Is that a mistake? Are those meant to be shields?

Frankly, as SE keeps saying they're going for pure healers (AST/WHM) and shield healers (SCH/SGE), my opinion is that pure healers shouldn't have any shields at all and shield healers shouldn't have any regens.

[Deceptus]

Frankly, as SE keeps saying they're going for pure healers (AST/WHM) and shield healers (SCH/SGE), my opinion is that pure healers shouldn't have any shields at all and shield healers shouldn't have any regens.

This is 100% my take. If you give Shield Healers lots of Regen abilities or vice versa what is the freaking point of differentiating Shield Healers vs Regen Healers?

Take Scholar. It has 2 Shields. Adlo and Succor. Maybe 3 if you include Consolation from Seraph. Out of something like 15 heals or so (including pets).

That is not a "Shield Healer". That is a Pure healer with complimentary Shields. Scholar has more Regens than Shields.

Also: Analyzing the abilities. #15 is essentially a Reverse Deployment Tactics. Adds shields to abilities vs DT's making shields regular heals.

[AnotherPerson]

Healers are all meant to be able to do all content, so shield healers and pure healers will both be able to clear duties solo and together in trial, regardless of the possibility of getting double shield and double heals, but only high-end content is tuned for 1 heal and 1 shield.

From what I can see, the only separation between the two is one is: on-demand shields on the GCD (shield healers) with weaker on-demand heals, whereas the other is on-demand heals on the GCD (pure healers) but no on-demand shields. oGCDs are equalized more or less in effective potency with slight nuances between each healer.

It sorta makes sense, having too many shields on a shield healer means you can stack them and ignore mechanics, which is something game devs want to avoid.
On the alternative side, shield healers having shields that can't stack but also having little to no way of recovering raw hp means if you screw up your shielding at one point or because the DPS eats heavy dmg, there's no way to recover, other than physick-level heal spam. This issue is largely mitigated by having oGCD heals, even if they are somewhat weak or are regen.

Finally, the third thing - probably if both shield healers have a lot of shields that can't stack in each individual kit, but can stack with other healer's kits, it might make them more meta-comp than 1 pure healer & 1 shield healer. Though... that may change based on encounter design the next expansion. They are... giving a lot more mobility focus to almost every job. Either raidwides are going to be more heavier / frequent that necessitates dodging avoidable AoEs, or there will be more mechanically heavy fights that require movement, which makes it a lot easier to mess up and require frequent healing bursts.

I'm really hoping that SCH combat-peloton/mitigation and SGE getting a 45 sec dash is to account for this since only the 'shield' healers are getting some form of mobility, which implies the pure-healers have another job maybe [?]

Hopefully I'm not being Copium.

[Drekor]

From what I can see, the only separation between the two is one is: on-demand shields on the GCD (shield healers) with weaker on-demand heals, whereas the other is on-demand heals on the GCD (pure healers) but no on-demand shields. oGCDs are equalized more or less in effective potency with slight nuances between each healer.

It sorta makes sense, having too many shields on a shield healer means you can stack them and ignore mechanics, which is something game devs want to avoid.
On the alternative side, shield healers having shields that can't stack but also having little to no way of recovering raw hp means if you screw up your shielding at one point or because the DPS eats heavy dmg, there's no way to recover, other than physick-level heal spam. This issue is largely mitigated by having oGCD heals, even if they are somewhat weak or are regen.

Finally, the third thing - probably if both shield healers have a lot of shields that can't stack in each individual kit, but can stack with other healer's kits, it might make them more meta-comp than 1 pure healer & 1 shield healer. Though... that may change based on encounter design the next expansion. They are... giving a lot more mobility focus to almost every job. Either raidwides are going to be more heavier / frequent that necessitates dodging avoidable AoEs, or there will be more mechanically heavy fights that require movement, which makes it a lot easier to mess up and require frequent healing bursts.

Hopefully I'm not being Copium.

There is a fair bit of copium there.

Few things to address. First the "on-demand" shields is kinda pointless for a few reasons. Most healing is done off the gcd so having your only shields for a "shield" healer sit there and get used 5% of the time doesn't really fit the theme. Second the shields are usually half heal and half shield which means they are only an efficient GCD if the target has already taken damage and will taken damage again shortly, this is surprisingly not as common as you might think outside of tanks. Using it purely for the shield is just a straight waste unless the boss is not targetable(transition) or your party will literally die without a shield in which case... just bring an AST they are keeping neutral sect so they can shield anyways(and better than SCH).

As for having too many shields being able to ignore mechanics... that's not really the case. time is time. Whether you spend the GCD(or oGCD CD) before the damage or after it you still spent the time to deal with the damage. And you can already stack AST and SCH shields now and you'll probably still be doing it in EW.

[AnotherPerson]

There is a fair bit of copium there.

Few things to address. First the "on-demand" shields is kinda pointless for a few reasons. Most healing is done off the gcd so having your only shields for a "shield" healer sit there and get used 5% of the time doesn't really fit the theme. Second the shields are usually half heal and half shield which means they are only an efficient GCD if the target has already taken damage and will taken damage again shortly, this is surprisingly not as common as you might think outside of tanks. Using it purely for the shield is just a straight waste unless the boss is not targetable(transition) or your party will literally die without a shield in which case... just bring an AST they are keeping neutral sect so they can shield anyways(and better than SCH).

As for having too many shields being able to ignore mechanics... that's not really the case. time is time. Whether you spend the GCD(or oGCD CD) before the damage or after it you still spent the time to deal with the damage. And you can already stack AST and SCH shields now and you'll probably still be doing it in EW.

That's true, "on-demand" shields are pointless for the most part with the current encounter design... because damage is too sparse and low to warrant shields or damage is lethal/near lethal/provides vulnerability up debuff which eventually makes shields useless. There are a couple of places where you can stack AST shields with SCH shields to ignore the mechanic rather than deal with it, but as SE has shown with Deployment tactics nerf and introduced more lethal mechanics, they don't want you to stack shields to do this; they want you to resolve the mechanic properly. While Savage is difficult, it's not overly strict in the sense that you can't have leeway in using GCD shields unless you were aiming for a speedkill, but it wasn't always necessary either as not all parties had GCD shields. After all, we're currently in an expansion where any combination of healers are able to clear content, so the importance for clears were based on optimizing the similarly functioning tools all healers possessed at the high-end level (so the lv 80 capstone skills mainly covered any shielding issue).

It might seem like there's a lot of copium involved here (and there probably is), but it's not necessarily all copium. The current iteration of shield healers feel useless mainly because encounter design takes into account that not all combinations of healers will have on-demand shields. However if SE doubling down on making content clearable through 1 heal and 1 shield healer, it means they should be taking a specific stance on how they want these healers to individually function in a high-end raid, which implies they are tuning encounter design for this specific case and not tuning design for situations with WHM/Diurnal AST. Time has showed that SE does listen to feedback, even if they can't implement them all in the way players may want it. SE did hear the changes with wanting healers to have a DPS rotation, and we got SGE's GCD DPS focused gameplay as a result. I don't doubt they haven't heard encounter design being problematic with healer design and taken the necessary steps to minimize this issue either.

Also, 'shield healers' doesn't necessarily imply they only use raw HP buffer to block incoming damage. It's just a lot easier to differentiate them this way. 'Shield' healers also mean healers with high amount of preventative measures to deal with incoming damage, and on-demand shields are the easiest way to indicate this. Sure, AST and WHM has 'shields' but they're not in any way as numerous as the ones SCH and SGE has for preventing damage. What I mean by this is mitigation skills. SCH has a couple of mitigations: Fey Illumination + Sacred Soil + New AoE Mitigation. This is then in addition to their shield skills: Adloquium, Succor, Consolation x2/Seraphic Veil, Deployment Tactics.
SGE has: Lustrate with 10% dmg mitigation + Sacred Soil Equivalent + Pneuma (AoE mitigation/heal) for mitigation and Eucrasia Diagnosis + Eucrasia Prognosis for shields.

Even if most of their 'shield' abilities are oGCDs seem pretty marginal, they are generally low enough cd to use it often and readily available. There's a lot we don't know about sage, but based on what we have seen, they are definitely have a lot more 'shields' than AST or WHM who has 1-2 in their kit. Even then, we're not sure on the exact specifics since a lot of details are still up in the air after being changed to 'pure healers'. We don't even know if Collective Unconscious still has a mitigation component tied to it as Diurnal and Nocturnal sect is removed entirely, but the skills keep the initial 'Diurnal sect' flavor as a pure healer.

Until now, we haven't been able to see a real difference because encounter design never required SCH to be in the party for on-demand shielding (you can still run WHM with Diurnal AST and rely on Neutral sect). That may change now moving forward since it's very well possible to have a party with WHM/SGE, and we know from Live Letter that SGE currently only possess on-demand shields. In addition, they also went ahead and made Feint and Addle both work for both magic/physical mitigation as well, even if it's not as strong as the initial plan. To me, that speaks volumes to how important they're making 'mitigation' a factor in high-end content and may think we don't even have enough mitigation for certain boss fights...

though that can just be Quality of Life updates and I'm just copium. Take everything I say with some Copium.

tl;dr

Encounters are designed to be cleared with 1 pure healer & 1 shield healer in Endwalker, so party compositions we have today such as using Diurnal AST with WHM - which had shields with their capstone skills - are no longer guaranteed to clear encounters for Endwalker. This implies a lot more shielding / mitigation mechanics are in play or pure healers and shield healers have an individual role that separates them individually even if they are both sharing the healing burden. Ex: Shield healers may actually have to GCD shield more now.

Sage has mitigations, but from LL we only seen an adloquium / succor equivalent of a shield mechanic. That may change and SGE may get more shields, but as it stands, in a WHM/SGE party, it may require a lot more on-demand shielding as a result since SGE has no oGCD shields. Feint and Addle also got adjusted to give more mitigations to handle both types of physical/magical damage with a smaller mitigation to its other type, which heavily implies mitigating is even more important than before and shielding will probably be necessary to cover the remaining damage in fights with a specific lean towards phys / magical.

Take everything I say with some Copium.

[ItMe]

This info is cool and beautiful.
Thank you Reddit discord for translating this and OP for sharing it here~

[KageTokage]

I'm assuming their AoE shield has a higher value then Succor because the heal potency is significantly lower comparatively, which would make it more practical for pre-emptive mitigation.

They also seem like the most mobile healer overall now between Ikaros letting you jump to friend/foe alike and having frequent use of instant cast spells that are strong as or stronger then their standard nuke in Toxicon/Phlegma respectively.

[WaxSw]

So basically unless some skill yet to be seen shakes the rotation it seems it would go like this:
Ecurasia dosis 3-> Phelgma->Phelgma->Dosis 3 spam-> refresh dot->Phelgma on cooldown
Switching Dosis 3 spam with Toxicon 2 when we want to move more and double weave

Its not good but at least its better than Sch's current rotation, especially if we consider a party member buff we're yet to see

[KageTokage]

Phlegma having charges means you'd probably want to hang onto one to use during party/raid burst windows or if you need more mobility.

Considering how its animation looks, I would've expected Pneuma to hit harder but I suppose if they made it too strong it would've lead to SGEs wanting to use it on cooldown instead of when the heal/defense buff from it is actually needed.