My Eulogy for Machinist

[Shironeko_Narunyan]

...GNB wouldn't exist...

Gunbreaker is complex? Since when?
I believe you picked the wrong example here, if you tried to demonstrate complexity.

The assumption that a job needs to be balanced around raiding doesn't seem to hold much water, since they've been following the in-game metrics aka player numbers.
There's also room for both more and less complex jobs, options are always a good thing.

I don't know where this mindset comes from that demands a high skill floor.
Machinist has some real issues, like its ping dependency, or the boring wildfire burst, but that's not what people complain about. They complain because they wanted to be special and play a job "only they understand", but that's not going to happen in a game with millions of players.

[CKNovel]

Gunbreaker is complex? Since when?
I believe you picked the wrong example here, if you tried to demonstrate complexity.

GNB is much more complex than MCH. That's why I picked this example, but it's true for almost any jobs.
And if by your opinion GNB is not complex with its additional tank responsibilities, then MCH is truly at the lowest.

Which is not normal.

I don't know where this mindset comes from that demands a high skill floor.
Machinist has some real issues, like its ping dependency, or the boring wildfire burst, but that's not what people complain about. They complain because they wanted to be special and play a job "only they understand", but that's not going to happen in a game with millions of players.

I don't claim knowing everything about the game.
But when I started the game in HW, the peak of job complexity, it was always fun to discover a job and exploit its gimmick.
I had good company, my Raidlead who knew little of MCH tried to guide me and eventually led me to guides and such. It's a bit like when you try to learn a complex topic, you go little by little and when at the end you compile and assemble everything you learned... It's a beautiful thing.

Now today the puzzle is much simpler. I still need to learn many things and lack pieces, it always feels good when I get a new piece that completes further my knowledge of the game. But we get less pieces.

HW MCH was not complex, SB MCH was not complex either. It's just that they had frustrating abilities.
We're not asking for extremely complex and convoluted rotation, just for a job kit that feels complete.

Here's the list of feedback I can personally remember:
-Wildfire is boring and needs to change. Easier change would be to make it a cooldown that consume X heat to throw a sticky bomb.
-Flamethrower feels like watering a garden. It's current use for tick fishing is ironically complex and convoluted, it needs to be reworked.
-1 2 3 during downtime is boring, we wants something to complete that.
-Heatblast spam gets tiring, we want something new around heat such as a heat consumer. Also a bunshin treatment could work.
-The Queen is completely automated and has no interaction. In short it's a glorified dot.

Contrary to your belief, those changes actually eases the rotation by simplifying limiting tools and gives more control to the MCH.
If you think they listen to casuals, ask yourself why MCH is the only job with the same Heatblast, unfriendly to lag?

[Nyarlha]

It's so much the majority Yoshida had to mention complexity and reassure players that Reaper wasn't a easy job.
Jobs should be balanced for high-end content players, not dungeon players.

In the same LL he deliberately stated they won't ever return to 3.x job design, as much as some people want it, and that instead they'll built upon 5.x design and its ease of access.

People need to start accepting that, and no amount of crying about that on the forums will change that.

[CKNovel]

In the same LL he deliberately stated they won't ever return to 3.x job design, as much as some people want it, and that instead they'll built upon 5.x design and its ease of access.

People need to start accepting that, and no amount of crying about that on the forums will change that.

Oops forgot something.
Yes, you don't want 3.0 "difficulty". Believe me it was a massive amount of crap. Most ppl that wants this design are nostalgic.

For example MCH had to cast and weave 3 buffs back to back. A pushback was part of their rotation so in dungeon pull they would push back a mob.
DRK MP management was terrible.
AST balance was crap, it literally had a card that would increases damages by crazy amounts.

Almost every jobs had a dot, it was ridiculous in 24 man raid because bosses had a limitation of debuff they could get. If you had too much summoners, 3 dots back then, oboi.

I'm not asking for 3.X design, I'd rather take SB MCH.
EDIT: To give you an example, 3.X design is SMN. Clunky, revolves around dot(s) and abilities that don't make sense. Minus a dmg buff you had to maintain for some jobs.

[Jirah]

Im pretty happy with MCH. Even happier they didn't change it too much and I won't have to relearn my rotations.

I say again, MCH isn’t that perfect for it to receive nothing. SHB brought it back to basics and simple rotations, it was under this mindset that EW would’ve improved upon its baseline not have it remain the same. But if the players need another crutch job alongside DNC? Why?

[Caitlyn]

I have mixed feelings about MCH.

In Stormblood (and HW), MCH was pretty special. Hard to play, because it requires some kind of tunnel vision to take care of your procs, rotation and other stuff. MCH-Mains very rare and that feeling was great. You mastering a job, where most ppl just give up. MCH was extremely unpopular and SE didnt know for years, how to fix that. The MCH-comm brought tons of good advices, but got keep unheard (sounds familiar, healers).

But on the other hand, any mistake or death were extremely punishing. It was extremely frustrating when your run is ruined just by some random dude killed you or didnt want you to heal right. Even having no meta (DRG + NIN) affected your dps more than anything.

All that changed with Shadowbringers, where EVERYBODY is know MCH-Main! Procs gone, Utility gone, half of your skills gone and everything got streamlined to the bottom. MCH became the Ranged-Samurai. Hell, it doesnt matter if you die or playing your rotation completely wrong, you re still making more damage than most other jobs. Its now a brain-dead job.

The big question is: is it good or is it a bad thing?
To be honest, I kinda miss the time, where you need to put much effort in mastering MCH. On the other hand, I hated how everyone in my group could mess up my damage. The only thing which didnt changed is the flow of the MCH. Its still stylish and is still fun to play. And because its very popular now, I dont expect much changes or a rework.

[Jirah]

Snip

That’s the thing here, MCH doesn’t need another rework (although id love if it got one because heat and battery are hardly notable mechanics) it desperately needs a enhancement! Somthing that adds life to the job but not taking away from its current gadgeteer flare. Somthing that can give it some Identity to stand out among its support cousins while also being as compromable as melee to seal its new selfish dps tag.

Utterly shocked it only got a reassemble charge to make it even easier and utterly disgusted it’s being applauded by its monotony this is not a patch this is a expansion. We should celebrate new ideas and themes not all cross fingers everything remains the same forever.

[ICountFrom0]

That’s the thing here, MCH doesn’t need another rework (although id love if it got one because heat and battery are hardly notable mechanics) it desperately needs a enhancement! Somthing that adds life to the job but not taking away from its current gadgeteer flare. Somthing that can give it some Identity to stand out among its support cousins while also being as compromable as melee to seal its new selfish dps tag.

Utterly shocked it only got a reassemble charge to make it even easier and utterly disgusted it’s being applauded by its monotony this is not a patch this is a expansion. We should celebrate new ideas and themes not all cross fingers everything remains the same forever.

What if some of the more random things where better themed?

Flash as an AOE interrupt?
Noiseblaster as an AOE Stun?

Improve on the role mechanic give away abilities.

I want to save the dehabilitator for level 99+1....


FLAMETHROWER looks powerful, but most of the attack set, well... dosen't.

we don't throw hand grenades, or nukes, we just go pew pew.

[Jirah]

Snip

Completely disagree on all your claims, theirs tons to add on and enhance from both SB and SHB, but they both needed different focuses

SB needed to be heavily streamlined and re-evaluated, SHB needs a few Qol addressed and enhanced the downtime and the execution. Both incarnations aren’t as in a dead end as most people think or are as flawless as many think right now that it needs to stagnate forever

SB needed a designated ST options for heat generation to Overheat, or just have it work like Hypercharge in SHB, Gauss barrel could just turn into a trait, Rapid can just fuse it’s buff to overheating, and Blank and Heart can be removed. This trim down pressure of the button execution order to streamline it not to leave it as is but to add on and enhance what’s leftover. If Ammo remains the same MCH will need a backup rotation, BRD and DNC loop works with it because they aren’t solely reliant on just its % chance no matter how frequent it is for it. This is where MCH GCD May help, Drill reassemble and AA ties can work alongside ammo to reduce the monotony, that leaves Gauss and Ricochet. Perhaps make AA a a Aoe and with Drill to transform from G and R upon a new gauge and or if reassembled similar but not quite the same as Heat. This is all but word vomit but I’m sure I can muster up somthing unique for the 4 of them without being shallow upgrades. Probably deserving of a thread on its own

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[Jirah]

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SHB needs a few extra steps to get away from the boorish appeal it has. Execution of its attacks has always been simple for simple sake but first Qol is more important. Hve FT generate heat, god sake this won’t break the job and will finally give it synergy with the rest of the kit, either remove Round or have rico proc with auto crossbow so it also has synergy with the kit. Bioblast could in theory replace old turret “Invul” debuff which would make the job have some much needed utilities and cuz rn its just a casual Drill alternative which isn’t even that vital, 6.0
The only change is a Aoe Attack from queen which...crossing fingers... is similar to deathflare but until tooltips, maybe a way to unleash attacks on MCH command? The longer the gauge is full the more you can land similar to Ahk Mourn May be adjusted abit as it’ll take forever to have it filled, or just cap it to 50. Heat blast has always been a bore after the initial cluster **** opener where you press all the buttons, hot take but I say remove it, turn heat into a speed buff and reset casttimes for Drill and AA. That way your doing your 1-2-3 and 1-1 while weaving your charges instead of 1-1-1-1-1, issues might be with how Times Drill and AA are and reconsider heats generation but aren’t impossible to strike a balance to reflect a kit. Wildfire may have to be reworked all together, unless they do somthing like bunchin stacks which would just add to the redundancy. Since this is all word vomit anyways why not; when WF is active on the target every Weaponskill you do adds a stack kinda similar how Normal Invul works but just the function not the actual lowering of defense, and just like before you can detonate it at your leisure and each stack is how powerful it’ll be but once it reaches a certain number like say 5, it maxes out and once it reaches anything higher it withers away making detonation vital, and maybe a trait that increases potency for every Weaponskill action if under the effects of heat to tie into its Heat phase and maybe include aoes and make WF a Aoe Blast similar to Flare or Deathflare so I can be used in both cases, like how they’re doing RDM. No timer, no worry for heats timer either so it’s not as ping sensitive and lower than CD to make it more apparent.

I cannot stress this enough but this all just hypotheticals and I’m sure they’re are underlying flaws in my suggestions. But in no way shape or form is any job dead end, it’s only a dead end if you don’t care